Male/female friendships

[Comedycook]

Hi... thought I would post here as I believe this is a feminist issue and I fear I'll be torn to shreds in aibu

I'm of the belief that men who are interested in having a genuine friendship (with no ulterior motives) with women are very thin on the ground.

Many women, particularly younger ones, shout me down when I express this view. However, from my own experience, I believe lots of men who are friends with women are doing so on the off chance that they might be in with a chance one day. When I was younger, slim, pretty, single I had plenty of make friends. As a fatter, older, settled down mum , I have none. Funny that!

So I'll accept there will be totally platonic friendships between men and women, but I think these are few and far between and many women are incredibly naive about what male friends are really thinking.

Thoughts?

[Comedycook]

@Gormless

Just once it would be nice to see a discussion like this that doesn’t assume universal heterosexuality. Some of us have completely different experiences of the dynamics under discussion.

Yes of course, that is a good point. I had started this thread as I'd been thinking about my own experiences specifically. Please feel free to share your own experiences, I'd be interested in hearing them.

[Dogslog]

I met my best male friend while having a walk. We loved each other like siblings and he loved my kids. I was a witness at his wedding and adore his wife. I have another three good male friends who are all entirely platonic relationships. DH’s best mate is a woman actually both were but one died. I think some people are good at friendship and people and when you are you don’t attract the people who can only see you as a potential partner. I recognise that type but avoid at all costs.

[Demilunary]

@deydododatdodontdeydo

I found male friendships much harder to develop and maintain once I had children.

Don't forget a lot of people in society frown on male-female friendships, more so when they have partners.
You only have to look at AIBU or Relationships on here.
If a woman's DH has a female friend, they are having an affair. No two ways about it.
There are always a lot of comments like "I wouldn't stand for that".
So, no surprise it's harder when you are older and coupled up.

Mn is genuinely the only place I see this attitude. I don’t disbelieve that it exists, but as I don’t have hang-ups about male-female friendships myself, it’s probably predictable I’m married to someone with longterm female friends and that virtually all my friends have opposite-sex friends.

[NiceGerbil]

A question I've been casually thinking about for years!

In brief. Have always been a boozy pubby reckless sort of person. Have always had both male and female friends. I am very silly and I enjoy the sort of quick one linery sort of thing with men- less serious usually than women.

Because I'm always up for the pub in almost all my jobs I've been quickly a part of the regular pub after work gang which has tbh almost always been all male. From those I've had maybe 2 or 3 that I would lunch with etc as well- friends.

When I was young most (not all) of these friends did something to make me realise that they saw me as a female first and a person after. They would get drunk and try to get off with me or make comments etc

I was gutted at about 25 this happened 4 or 5 times in a row and made me think all that time I saw them as a friend first a person they saw a different way. And did they even like me or just want to fuck me.

Over the years I think I got better at telling- I'd say I've only met about 3 men who saw me as a person first, and liked who I was, rather than female first iyswim. It's really rare.

Obv I still am mates with loads of blokes but just have a little awareness of this (unless they are gay!).

And now the interesting bit-

The only person I stayed (sporadic) friends with from my first job was a bloke 10 years younger. Still in touch that was 30 years ago.

Really good mate this job. Only one from work I met up with in lockdown (we work in town). Left a while back we're arranging to meet etc. Lovely lovely bloke. More than 20 years younger.

New mate from a place I visit been texting well funny have loads in common. 17 years younger.

I think that fancying/ sex is so blatently off the table, it makes it easier?

[Comedycook]

Yes @NiceGerbil thats exactly what I'm thinking about. Do men have a genuine interest in getting to know women or is there always an element if them viewing women as potential sexual partners?

[KimikosNightmare]

@Comedycook

Yes *@NiceGerbil* thats exactly what I'm thinking about. Do men have a genuine interest in getting to know women or is there always an element if them viewing women as potential sexual partners?

No there isn't. My best friend of well over 30 years was married when I met him and is still married to the same woman. There's not any spark of sexual attraction between us.

My husband has more female friends than men. I don't remotely think he views or viewed them as sexual partners.

It's often struck me that feminists seem to think all or most men would be happy to have sex with any available woman. I don't believe that. I don't find the vast, overwhelming majority of men sexually attractive. Why would men feel differently?

[Comedycook]

It's often struck me that feminists seem to think all or most men would be happy to have sex with any available woman. I don't believe that. I don't find the vast, overwhelming majority of men sexually attractive

I don't think men want sex with all women they see. I'm wondering if they can be bothered to get to know women they don't find attractive?

[NiceGerbil]

' I don't find the vast, overwhelming majority of men sexually attractive. Why would men feel differently?'

Ime loads of men see loads of girls women in the street in the pub etc as sexually attractive. Many more men seem to be not as fussy at all when it comes to sex. That's my experience. If there's a young woman who is pretty and has a nice figure etc in the office or wherever then loads of men, even if they'd never act on it, will 'fancy' her. Personality etc seems to be a separate thing. In my experience.

[NiceGerbil]

'It's often struck me that feminists seem to think all or most men would be happy to have sex with any available woman.'

I do think loads of men would say yes to a consequence free shag with an attractive 20yo. I mean of course not all of them. And plenty of women are more interested in looks alone for sex.

The people who really think men are sex obsessed and blokes who wouldn't do xyz given half s chance are the ones on threads about porn strip clubs paying for sex etc

Loads always say
All men watch porn. All! (A silly statement).
Sex is a need and so paying for sex is something men need to be able to do
Any woman who says her husband wouldn't go to a strip club is delusional

All that shit.

[NiceGerbil]

'No there isn't. My best friend of well over 30 years was married when I met him and is still married to the same woman. There's not any spark of sexual attraction between us.'

Why are other women's experiences less important than yours? To the point yours negates them entirely?

One man is hardly a massive sample is it!

[Todaytomorrowyesterday]

One of my best friends is a man, I met him at work we are similar ages and have lots in common. He worked away in the week so was glad to make friends in the area.
It’s never ever crossed the lines - my husband & I were invited to his wedding. We now no longer work together but we still in contact - are chat is random usually funny stuff!
I know both my husband and his partner had maybe some concerns initially maybe but we put them both at ease - my husband could pick up my phone at anytime and nothing is hidden.

[slashlover]

I have a couple of male friends, one of whom I've known for nearly 20 years. We go on weekends away probably twice per year to go to an event we like. I'm permanently single, one guy is married and the other had a long term girlfriend. Nothing has ever come close to happening.

[MotherOffCod]

That’s kind of a sad way to look at the male half of our world.

It definitely doesn’t reflect my experience of male/female friendships.

[NiceGerbil]

Mother

Did you read my post, is this one you would see as a sad view of the male half of our world?

I've been answering but maybe your comments are for others?

[NiceGerbil]

This post.

You find it a sad view of men?

[NiceGerbil]

Fuck sorry I'll try again

'A question I've been casually thinking about for years!

In brief. Have always been a boozy pubby reckless sort of person. Have always had both male and female friends. I am very silly and I enjoy the sort of quick one linery sort of thing with men- less serious usually than women.

Because I'm always up for the pub in almost all my jobs I've been quickly a part of the regular pub after work gang which has tbh almost always been all male. From those I've had maybe 2 or 3 that I would lunch with etc as well- friends.

When I was young most (not all) of these friends did something to make me realise that they saw me as a female first and a person after. They would get drunk and try to get off with me or make comments etc

I was gutted at about 25 this happened 4 or 5 times in a row and made me think all that time I saw them as a friend first a person they saw a different way. And did they even like me or just want to fuck me.

Over the years I think I got better at telling- I'd say I've only met about 3 men who saw me as a person first, and liked who I was, rather than female first iyswim. It's really rare.

Obv I still am mates with loads of blokes but just have a little awareness of this (unless they are gay!).

And now the interesting bit-

The only person I stayed (sporadic) friends with from my first job was a bloke 10 years younger. Still in touch that was 30 years ago.

Really good mate this job. Only one from work I met up with in lockdown (we work in town). Left a while back we're arranging to meet etc. Lovely lovely bloke. More than 20 years younger.

New mate from a place I visit been texting well funny have loads in common. 17 years younger.

I think that fancying/ sex is so blatently off the table, it makes it easier?'

[Demilunary]

@Comedycook

It's often struck me that feminists seem to think all or most men would be happy to have sex with any available woman. I don't believe that. I don't find the vast, overwhelming majority of men sexually attractive

I don't think men want sex with all women they see. I'm wondering if they can be bothered to get to know women they don't find attractive?

I’m a feminist and I certainly don’t think that. I think it’s important to distinguish between the patriarchy and individual men.

Why are you so invested in this idea that genuine opposite-sex friendships are impossible, @Comedycook? Do you want all those of us on this thread who have strong, happy, uncomplicated opposite-sex friendships (or friendships with our own sex if we’re gay/bi) to admit the other person is only in it for the sex, and we’re just naive and deluded?

[Comedycook]

No but I think genuinely platonic friendships are in the minority. I'm pushing forty, I am overweight and certainly not the slim, pretty, young woman I once was. Men don't talk to me really...I certainly couldn't imagine one being so bothered to do so, that we'd become friends.

[Hawkins001]

I'll admit, I prefer more friendships with ladies, mainly for a more varied conversational topics of different topics and subjects from make-up, to fashion, to other topics they have understanding aboit, and then also if the friendship begins to develop a connection then if the lady wanted to, then it could progress deeper and more engaged levels of intrigue and connections, yes I like male friendships too,

[Demilunary]

@Comedycook

No but I think genuinely platonic friendships are in the minority. I'm pushing forty, I am overweight and certainly not the slim, pretty, young woman I once was. Men don't talk to me really...I certainly couldn't imagine one being so bothered to do so, that we'd become friends.

But do you choose your friends of either sex for their looks, @Comedycook?

[Comedycook]

I have female friends. I don't have any male friends...I have no idea how I would strike up a friendship with a man

[Demilunary]

@Comedycook

I have female friends. I don't have any male friends...I have no idea how I would strike up a friendship with a man

Exactly the same way you make your female friends!

[Dogoodfeelgood]

I think when I was younger I had lots of male acquaintances because you’re at uni etc and tend to hang out in groups, so lots of friends of boyfriends and general lads hanging about - but I totally agree that any of the “close” male friendships were either unrequited love on their side or they were gay. I’m still friends with the gay ones but all by male “besties” fizzled out over time. So I definitely agree. I would consider lots of males in my life to be my friends, but they’re almost all the partners of my female friends, or some of those old secret flame friends who have now settled down so it’s possible to catch up as a shared history and chemistry - but we’d only catch up with partners there, not 1:1. YANBU! But it makes sense doesn’t it, if you’re heterosexual and have met a guy that you get on fabulously with, what are the chances that neither of you catch feelings over time? Fun to dabble with when young but slightly pointless if you have found your life partner!

[Comedycook]

Yes exactly my experience too @Dogoodfeelgood

[NiceGerbil]

This is a general chat where women are giving an opinion based on their experiences which will all obviously be different.

Different personalities also come into play.

For example the type of friendship Hawkins001 enjoys with women, I would avoid like the plague. With female friends the things we talk about are totally different to what she's looking for.