My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Feminism: chat

Male/female friendships

182 replies

Comedycook · 30/07/2021 14:10

Hi... thought I would post here as I believe this is a feminist issue and I fear I'll be torn to shreds in aibu Grin

I'm of the belief that men who are interested in having a genuine friendship (with no ulterior motives) with women are very thin on the ground.

Many women, particularly younger ones, shout me down when I express this view. However, from my own experience, I believe lots of men who are friends with women are doing so on the off chance that they might be in with a chance one day. When I was younger, slim, pretty, single I had plenty of make friends. As a fatter, older, settled down mum , I have none. Funny that!

So I'll accept there will be totally platonic friendships between men and women, but I think these are few and far between and many women are incredibly naive about what male friends are really thinking.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
Report
NiceGerbil · 01/08/2021 18:47

'But op sounds like the kind of women who give my friend funny looks at playgroup and sit as far away from him as possible because he's not a Mom and therefore couldn't possibly enjoy coffee and kid chat'

I understand what you're getting at.

But plenty of women hate coffee and kid chat as well.

The assumption that women will and men won't. Is the sort of social enforcement of men and women are sort of stereotypes who like spas and prosecco Vs football and pints that I find really hard to comprehend.

Report
Comedycook · 01/08/2021 18:51

Also the assumption that because I prefer female company I must talk about kids all the time...because of course, that's all women talk about isn't it

OP posts:
Report
KimikosNightmare · 01/08/2021 18:58

@Comedycook

You're just peeved because you didn't get universal validation of your view that men and women being friends is vanishingly rare

Or is it that actually my experiences have been totally disregarded

You should try reading your own posts back. You are dismissive of posts who didn't agree with you.
Report
SleepingStandingUp · 01/08/2021 19:36

There is a space between "vanishingly rare that men talk to any woman they don't want to fuck" and "every man respects every woman for their brain". Of course there are men and women who's primary reason for instigating and maintaining a friendship is to progress it to something more. But lots of men and women manage normal, platonic friendships without having to be "desperate" to find one. It isn't that rare and it isnt that special. It's just friendship

Report
Comedycook · 01/08/2021 19:54

@SleepingStandingUp

There is a space between "vanishingly rare that men talk to any woman they don't want to fuck" and "every man respects every woman for their brain". Of course there are men and women who's primary reason for instigating and maintaining a friendship is to progress it to something more. But lots of men and women manage normal, platonic friendships without having to be "desperate" to find one. It isn't that rare and it isnt that special. It's just friendship

Yes but by your analysis you see men and women as entirely equal in terms of their attitude towards friendship with the opposite sex and I don't believe that at all.
OP posts:
Report
SleepingStandingUp · 01/08/2021 21:08

Of course it isn't the same, because the world isn't black and white. Men and women in general view things differently, but that doesn't make it vanishingly rare for men to have friendships with women they don't want to have sex with else there wouldn't be so many of us on this thread.

I think it's sad that you believe that your friends were only friendly with you when they thought they might get / would want sex. That's obv their loss because being friends for years and then ditching someone because they no longer are physically attractive to you doesn't reflect well on them. But i do wonder what their take on it would be

Report
Charlize43 · 01/08/2021 21:25

I think this is more due to the OP's perspective.

We have loads of male friends within a wide range of ages. My partner is a teacher so she often brings students home with her and these have developed into some good lasting relationships. We are both women in our 50s.

I would say the big difference to having male and female friends in your older years depends on whether you enjoying entertaining. We actively entertain and there is always something going on at least one a week in our house, but we normally have friends over to dinner once or twice a week and have some sort of BBQ (weather permitting) or Sunday lunch every weekend unless we are away.

I think it's really small minded to think that men are interested in women for sex only. For example, I'll often go out for drinks with my tennis partner. Sometimes his wife comes along and sometimes he doesn't. I also have an elderly male neighbour whose house I go to, to play cards.

Most people will know the boundaries in any relationship.

Report
FuckingFabulous · 01/08/2021 21:45

I had male close friends for years. When I was 17-21, I absolutely loved my best friend and he ghosted me when he realised I wasn't ever going to shag him. My other very close friend became creepily obsessed with me, to the point that I couldn't maintain a friendship any longer. The only very strictly platonic male/female friendship I've ever had was lovely. Really really lovely. But as soon as he got the partner he has now, he backed off massively as she found it to be something she couldn't handle. I miss him still, but it's his life and he's made his choice and I wish him all the luck in the world

Report
deydododatdodontdeydo · 01/08/2021 22:06

Or is it that actually my experiences have been totally disregarded

They haven't. Nobody's doubted your experience.
But you have disregarded other's experiences which are different to yours.

Report
YouShouldLeave · 02/08/2021 00:15

@KimikosNightmare
” No- the OP and her follow-up comments are bizarre. She seems incapable of understanding other people, indeed other women, have different lives, experiences and friends from hers. At least one poster thinks saying that is "negating" the OP's experience.”

I think her post make perfect sense.
I know from personal expirience, because i’ve always been ugly.
Men never wanted to get to know me and having to watch them swarm my pretty friends/women.
I was just pushed aside, so i’ve had a lot of time just to observe how men behave.
And also having a unique opportunity neutrally see how people behave, since i had no skin in the game.

Report
kin432 · 02/08/2021 06:33

If I were male, I'd be offended by some of the generalisations made on this thread. In particular, that men only want to be friends with attractive women and that there's always the desire for something more on their part.

I'm genuinely insulted on their behalf. My male friends are nothing like this, they're loyal, funny and all-round lovely people. Frankly we all looked better at uni than we do now in our 40s but our looks have had no bearing on our friendship. My male friends bring a different perspective to my life and it would be the poorer without them as friends. Perhaps others haven't been lucky enough to make these types of friendships but there's no need to write off all male-female friendships on the basis of their experience.

Report
NumberTheory · 02/08/2021 07:08

@kin432

If I were male, I'd be offended by some of the generalisations made on this thread. In particular, that men only want to be friends with attractive women and that there's always the desire for something more on their part.

I'm genuinely insulted on their behalf. My male friends are nothing like this, they're loyal, funny and all-round lovely people. Frankly we all looked better at uni than we do now in our 40s but our looks have had no bearing on our friendship. My male friends bring a different perspective to my life and it would be the poorer without them as friends. Perhaps others haven't been lucky enough to make these types of friendships but there's no need to write off all male-female friendships on the basis of their experience.

JesusChrist, this is the feminism board. We should be able to discuss ideas around male attitudes to women and our different experiences without the idea that we are insulting men by wondering if they, as a class, treat women, as a class in a less than equal/reasonable/good/human manner.

It’s good that people have different experiences from the OP (I have too) and bringing them up as counterpoints is totally valid. But on a feminism board prioritising men’s feelings over the discussion of women’s experiences is really inappropriate.
Report
kin432 · 02/08/2021 07:38

But on a feminism board prioritising men’s feelings over the discussion of women’s experiences is really inappropriate.

I agree with your points btw. But I'm also a believer in treating others as you wish to be treated. Therefore I don't agree with posters claiming that all men have an ulterior motive and that we're naive if we believe a platonic relationship is possible. The same way I'd call out the equivalent generalisations of all women being x, y and z if they are undesirable characteristics.

Report
NumberTheory · 02/08/2021 07:58

@kin432

But on a feminism board prioritising men’s feelings over the discussion of women’s experiences is really inappropriate.

I agree with your points btw. But I'm also a believer in treating others as you wish to be treated. Therefore I don't agree with posters claiming that all men have an ulterior motive and that we're naive if we believe a platonic relationship is possible. The same way I'd call out the equivalent generalisations of all women being x, y and z if they are undesirable characteristics.

Applying your “golden rule” would make it impossible to talk about oppression of any class by another class, since you’d presumably never want to be talked about that way yourself.

The point of feminist analysis is to generalize about men and women in order to understand the different life experiences and outcomes - that we know exist - and effect change to improve the lot of women. You can disagree with the OP’s contention (I do too, to a large extent), but that’s different from telling her she should not even posit the idea, especially on the grounds that men would be insulted.
Report
kin432 · 02/08/2021 08:05

I didn't say she shouldn't post her thoughts. Part of a healthy debate is that everyone is free to share their different opinions and experiences.

Report
Comedycook · 02/08/2021 08:11

If I were male, I'd be offended by some of the generalisations made on this thread

Oh purlease...does this also mean we can't ever discuss male violence or male privilege because NAMALT and we don't want to offend men who aren't violent or entitled

OP posts:
Report
Comedycook · 02/08/2021 08:13

This thread is ridiculous to the extent I am now in a hypothetical situation whereby I'm giving dirty looks to a poor sahd in a fictional baby group despite the fact I don't even have a baby Grin

OP posts:
Report
SleepingStandingUp · 02/08/2021 08:40

@Comedycook

This thread is ridiculous to the extent I am now in a hypothetical situation whereby I'm giving dirty looks to a poor sahd in a fictional baby group despite the fact I don't even have a baby Grin

Actually i said sounds like the kind of women who not that you were the woman who did it.
Report
NumberTheory · 02/08/2021 08:48

Telling someone that their point is offensive to men (even though it’s based on their own experience) is not engaging in a healthy debate on that point, it’s an attempt to invalidate their argument on the basis of the oppressing class’s feelings. And, on a feminism board, it entirely misses the point of discussion.

You went on to say that you don’t agree with someone making the point that all men might be a particular way. Which, again, isn’t engaging in healthy debate on a feminism board, it’s an attempt to shut it down. When feminists call out generalizations about women that is an attempt to shut down the discussion. Because they don’t want to have a discussion about whether all women are crap at math/more nurturing than all men/bad drivers. It is not an attempt to take part in a healthy debate on the idea.

Your point about your own experiences was a good one, though. Pity you couldn’t have focused on that and how it might mesh with the OP’s and other posters’ instead of pushing the narrative that when women are trying to make sense of their oppression what they need to take account of is men’s feelings.

Report
Comedycook · 02/08/2021 08:50

sounds like the kind of women

So we can talk like this about women but god forbid we make any generalisations about men.

Poor menz

OP posts:
Report
SleepingStandingUp · 02/08/2021 08:55

Yours and the ops experiences are perfectly valid @YouShouldLeave, its just that op doesn't seem to want to hear any contrary experiences.

It does seem to be something of a self fulfilling prophecy for so though. "Men don't talk to me because im unattractive so i dont want to talk to men and don't want to be friends with one. Oh look, see, no man is my friend. It must be sexual"

Report
Comedycook · 02/08/2021 09:01

@SleepingStandingUp

Yours and the ops experiences are perfectly valid *@YouShouldLeave*, its just that op doesn't seem to want to hear any contrary experiences.

It does seem to be something of a self fulfilling prophecy for so though. "Men don't talk to me because im unattractive so i dont want to talk to men and don't want to be friends with one. Oh look, see, no man is my friend. It must be sexual"

Do you really not think men treat women differently based on their looks?
OP posts:
Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

Comedycook · 02/08/2021 09:03

I read something interesting somewhere recently whereby someone suggested that if two women were in an altercation, a female police officer should deal with it rather than a male as men may subconsciously side with whatever woman they find most attractive. I thought it was an interesting theory. I don't believe that in normal day to day social interactions that men see beyond looks very much...

OP posts:
Report
SleepingStandingUp · 02/08/2021 09:08

Do you really not think men treat women differently based on their looks? I think some do. I'm not doubting that, nor the experiences of you and pp. I also think to some extent we all do it, whether its treating Someone differently because they're attracted to them or not giving them any attention because they're not attractive. I think there's an age bias on the latter and a sex bias

But it doesn't matter if fictional Steve treats me differently to someone he fancies if he still treats me woth friendship and respect. So yes given we were both single for a good while, I'd expect my friend's to treat me differently if they fancied me because you're trying to garner a different relationship but it doesn't mean that me being fat, nearly 40 and unattractive means we aren't genuinely friends

Report
Comedycook · 02/08/2021 09:13

But my point is I don't believe most men will even spend enough time speaking to a woman they don't find attractive on the off chance they'll become friends. I just don't think most men care enough to invest their time in women they're not attracted to

OP posts:
Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.