Page 4 | Male/female friendships

Comedycook · 2021-07-30T13:10:01+00:00

Hi... thought I would post here as I believe this is a feminist issue and I fear I'll be torn to shreds in aibu [grin] I'm of the belief that men who are interested in having a genuine friendship (with no ulterior motives) with women are very thin on the ground. Many women, particularly younger ones, shout me down when I express this view. However, from my own experience, I believe lots of men who are friends with women are doing so on the off chance that they might be in with a chance one day. When I was younger, slim, pretty, single I had plenty of make friends. As a fatter, older, settled down mum , I have none. Funny that! So I'll accept there will be totally platonic friendships between men and women, but I think these are few and far between and many women are incredibly naive about what male friends are really thinking. Thoughts?

Original poster

Comedycook · 31/07/2021 10:51

Like @Comedycook not knowing how to talk to a man despite being married to one

I know how to talk to men thank you but surely if a woman strikes up a conversation with a man and perhaps suggests a coffee the first assumption would be she is arranging a date rather than an attempt at friendship?

Fwiw, I have no real wish for male friends...I prefer female ones. The only men I have in my life are dh and Ds and I'm happy with that. I'm a woman's woman.

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AnotherMarvellousThing · 31/07/2021 11:57

@Comedycook

Like *@Comedycook* not knowing how to talk to a man despite being married to one

I know how to talk to men thank you but surely if a woman strikes up a conversation with a man and perhaps suggests a coffee the first assumption would be she is arranging a date rather than an attempt at friendship?

Fwiw, I have no real wish for male friends...I prefer female ones. The only men I have in my life are dh and Ds and I'm happy with that. I'm a woman's woman.

Honestly, @Comedycook, you sound as if you view men very much in sexual terms, rather as I did when I left my convent school, having had no contact with boys at all until the age of 18.

But that was just my natural inexperience talking back then — whereas you say you’re almost 40, and admit to having no men friends at all, and to having literally no men in your life apart from the one you’re married to and the one you gave birth to, so I fail to see how you can pronounce on opposite-sex platonic friendships being rare? Or that you don’t want them, if you have no knowledge of them?

From what you say about how you’re no longer good-looking enough for men to want to talk to, you sound as if you think all contact between straight men and women defaults to sexual attraction. I’m in my late 40s, plain, and as well as old, long-standing male friends, have made a couple of new ones recently — one I met because of a shared interest in a writer (we actually met in an overgrown cemetery looking for her grave), the other has a son in my son’s class a d I first got to know him on school runs and play date pick-ups. No spark of sexual attraction at all. I just got a belated birthday present in the post from a male former colleague who became a good friend.

I’ve also got lots of female friends, but I would have lost out on some great friendships had I restricted myself to my own sex.

SleepingStandingUp · 31/07/2021 12:03

Fwiw, I have no real wish for male friends...I prefer female ones. The only men I have in my life are dh and Ds and I'm happy with that. I'm a woman's woman. What does that even mean? Being a woman's woman? I just find it hard to understand how a woman who's chosen to have a male partner has such contempt for other men. Do you assume your DP is somehow a loftier version of other men? That hes not like other men, he's more feminine and in touch with himself so he's ok to talk to? Or is it more like you only need to endure male company for the purposes of procreation so he was the easiest one to tolerate?

kin432 · 31/07/2021 12:28

I have lots of male friends, mainly from university but a few from work. My husband has lots of female friends from work. I value my male friendships, it's nice to have a break from the usual conversations with my school mums and they make me laugh. I've also known them for 20 years and there's an easiness as a result. My husband often meets a female friend for lunch, I went out with a male friend (and, shock horror, also an ex) for dinner on my own this week. Neither of us feel threatened in any way from each other socialising with the opposite sex.

I think it's a shame when a platonic male-female friendship regularly attracts insinuations of one friend wanting more.

Original poster

Comedycook · 31/07/2021 12:31

have a male partner has such contempt for other men. Do you assume your DP is somehow a loftier version of other men? That hes not like other men, he's more feminine and in touch with himself so he's ok to talk to

My DH is very much not like that...and I don't have contempt for other men, I'm just not especially interested in forming friendships with them

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AnotherMarvellousThing · 31/07/2021 12:36

But why is one man acceptable to marry and spend your life with, but all the other men in the world aren’t people you have the remotest interest in having an occasional coffee with?

kin432 · 31/07/2021 12:45

It's also handy having a different perspective at times. A friend is currently going through a difficult separation from his wife and appreciates having advice from a female friend. My male friends are also good at taking the mickey which amuses me as I find humour is very good for my mental well-being and getting through crap times.

Dogoodfeelgood · 31/07/2021 13:16

I think as well posters mentioning male friends they see occasionally with DC or at work events, obviously that is completely possible to be platonic and I have plenty of those! I just mean those male “besties” from my youth where there would be lots of texting like you would with a female bestie, 1:1 hanging out, visiting museums etc - that particular male female friendship in my experience has never been truly platonic.

Maybe you can enjoy it for a while but the hanging out and close contact will end when you get a boyfriend or they get a girlfriend in a way that doesn’t happen with female to female friendships.

Of course there are exceptions, but as a young woman who was totally convinced I could have platonic male friends, this didn’t play out in my life. Yes to lots of males I’m friendly with at work, or friends DP/DHS and we hang out as a group - but no I have never had a male bestie on the same level as a female bestie and it been platonic over time.

Dogoodfeelgood · 31/07/2021 13:20

And of course the occasional coffee with an ex or helping a male friend through a life event happens - but it’s never on the level of female friendship (unless they’re gay!). That casual let’s get drunk together, send each other memes constantly and it be platonic forever vibe… I’m yet to discover with a male!

QualityMarguerite · 31/07/2021 13:49

The only time I didn’t really have many make friends was that uni kind of age. Too much predatory behaviour to sort through and too many immature boys in need of a mother figure. Thinking about this my friendships with male and female friends are the same. Texts, lunches and drinks or meet ups lots of piss taking, catching up and deeper stuff. We are all people first and the friend for life with absolute love is a younger fitter man but we just connected. We have since moved away, had more kids, he has married and had children but friendship lasts because it’s built on the deep stuff.

SleepingStandingUp · 31/07/2021 14:42

@AnotherMarvellousThing

But why is one man acceptable to marry and spend your life with, but all the other men in the world aren’t people you have the remotest interest in having an occasional coffee with?

This is it. Either hes not typically "male" whatever that means abd so he doesn't really register in her thoughts about being friends with men, or hes not a friend, he's someone she chose to share life and parenthood with but not someone who she really likes as a person

SleepingStandingUp · 31/07/2021 14:45

@Dogoodfeelgood

I think as well posters mentioning male friends they see occasionally with DC or at work events, obviously that is completely possible to be platonic and I have plenty of those! I just mean those male “besties” from my youth where there would be lots of texting like you would with a female bestie, 1:1 hanging out, visiting museums etc - that particular male female friendship in my experience has never been truly platonic.

Maybe you can enjoy it for a while but the hanging out and close contact will end when you get a boyfriend or they get a girlfriend in a way that doesn’t happen with female to female friendships.

Of course there are exceptions, but as a young woman who was totally convinced I could have platonic male friends, this didn’t play out in my life. Yes to lots of males I’m friendly with at work, or friends DP/DHS and we hang out as a group - but no I have never had a male bestie on the same level as a female bestie and it been platonic over time.

I think in part, in sweeping generalisations, part of the "texting all the time" stuff is just how in the main men and women communicate.

And I think it changes when they get a partner because so many women are so convinced men would only be friends with them for sex so can't believe a boyfriend isnt trying to fuck his mate so they're forced to end the friendship or lose the relationship

AnotherMarvellousThing · 31/07/2021 14:53

@Dogoodfeelgood

I think as well posters mentioning male friends they see occasionally with DC or at work events, obviously that is completely possible to be platonic and I have plenty of those! I just mean those male “besties” from my youth where there would be lots of texting like you would with a female bestie, 1:1 hanging out, visiting museums etc - that particular male female friendship in my experience has never been truly platonic.

Maybe you can enjoy it for a while but the hanging out and close contact will end when you get a boyfriend or they get a girlfriend in a way that doesn’t happen with female to female friendships.

Of course there are exceptions, but as a young woman who was totally convinced I could have platonic male friends, this didn’t play out in my life. Yes to lots of males I’m friendly with at work, or friends DP/DHS and we hang out as a group - but no I have never had a male bestie on the same level as a female bestie and it been platonic over time.

I certainly have one of those — go on holiday together, call in the small hours or in an emergency. I once called him when I was having horrifically heavy periods due to as yet undiagnosed fibroids and had flooded through my clothes on he way to a work event by rail — he met me at a railway station with a change of clothes and drove me to a pharmacy.

HandScreen · 31/07/2021 15:18

I have some really good and meaningful friendships with men.

Original poster

Comedycook · 31/07/2021 15:21

This is it. Either hes not typically "male" whatever that means abd so he doesn't really register in her thoughts about being friends with men, or hes not a friend, he's someone she chose to share life and parenthood with but not someone who she really likes as a person

Absolute nonsense.

I actually feel like genuinely good men who don't have male privilege and entitlement oozing out of them are not in huge supply. I'm happy to take my time to find one and have a relationship with but doesn't seem massively worth it for an occasional coffee and text exchange.

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SleepingStandingUp · 31/07/2021 17:12

So you talked to them long enough to find one to meet the biological need, and now you're happy to not have to engage with them any more. Fair enough.

It seems an incredibly reductist way of life, to just not bother actively engaging with any men because you have one thank you very much, because you're a "woman's woman 🙄" as though personality could be so nicely split into two boxes

AnotherMarvellousThing · 31/07/2021 17:13

But @Comedycook, you say yourself that the only men in your life are your husband and son. How are you so sure that men who ‘don’t have male privilege and entitlement oozing out of them’ are in short supply? And you’re not limited to coffee and texts with any friendship - it friends, surely, on what you want from friends?

AnotherMarvellousThing · 31/07/2021 17:27

Sorry, it DEPENDS.

Original poster

Comedycook · 31/07/2021 17:51

The older I've got, the more cynical I've got for sure. I think many women as they age become more feminist in their views. Was it Germaine Greer who said men hate women? The more I see, the more I believe it is true. When my DH eventually gets fed up of me I'm not sure I'll be terribly bothered to seek another relationship.

Regardless I'm not sure many married mums go out of their way to form platonic relationships with other men

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SleepingStandingUp · 31/07/2021 18:08

Regardless I'm not sure many married mums go out of their way to form platonic relationships with other men I don't go out kf my way to form platonic relationships with women either tbf. Surely you just make friends people you meet in life? Rather than "woman seeks woman aged X for texting and coffee"

NiceGerbil · 31/07/2021 18:58

You meet people you get on with them you get to know each other you become friends.

Different levels of friendship obv. V old ones you know inside and out. Others you get on with go for a drink etc.

Go out of your way to make friends?

Like I said earlier though I think it depends on your work and lifestyle.

I'm in a male dominated field so naturally end up being good friends with some of my workmates who happen to be male.

Men are just people when it comes to getting on.

I do get what OP means as I said earlier from my experience.

I also think a surprising number of both men and women go along with the socially pushed idea that it's normal to massively prefer and hang out with same sex. And also the idea that the sexes don't 'get' each other. That really irritates me.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 31/07/2021 21:20

Was it Germaine Greer who said men hate women?

It's pretty clear that you hate men, though.
Except for your one in a million DH of course.

Regardless I'm not sure many married mums go out of their way to form platonic relationships with other men

Does anybody go out of ther way to make friends? Unless they have just moved to a new area.
They just happen.

NiceGerbil · 31/07/2021 21:33

The quote was

'Women have very little idea of how much men hate them'

From the female eunuch.

' Female Eunuch - Wikipedia
The Female Eunuch is a 1970 book by Germaine Greer that became an international bestseller and an important text in the feminist movement.'

Maybe the most famous Western feminist writer, and her most famous publication I'd say, regarded as groundbreaking.

It's a statement about groups.

Applying it to individuals misses and reduces her point entirely.

Happy to discuss this quote on another thread if there is interest.

NiceGerbil · 31/07/2021 21:36

Plenty of people do have, I was going to say unusual but I think not uncommon, ideas about people and friendship.

I doubt there are many people in the world totally free of bias and totally open to friendship with literally anyone.

I know plenty of men who don't have female friends and wouldn't even think about a woman as a potential pal.

Thinking about it like the OP really.
Women are partner/ mum/ daughter etc.
Friends are men who you do hobbies watch footie with etc etc.

It's hardly uncommon is it.

Original poster

Comedycook · 31/07/2021 21:41

@deydododatdodontdeydo

Was it Germaine Greer who said men hate women?

It's pretty clear that you hate men, though.
Except for your one in a million DH of course.

Regardless I'm not sure many married mums go out of their way to form platonic relationships with other men

Does anybody go out of ther way to make friends? Unless they have just moved to a new area.
They just happen.

Ridiculous...I don't hate men. I just don't believe there are lots of men who want genuine friendship with women with no ulterior motive. Not am I so desperate for male friendship that it's worth the risk of bothering to find one. ONly on here could people make such ridiculous leaps that this means I hate men.

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