Lelarose Desperately Depressed #2

[thatsnotmymonkey]

Hi Lela, I hope this is OK, come over here. We will all be here for you. xx

How are things today Lela? x

Ah, sorry I haven't beeen around, lela. You're not shit, and you're not a failure, and you are moving forward, but these dips will happen, it is hard, and I think Christmas can just add to the pressure and stress of it all. Hang on in there, talk to your psych and work through this. You know that other people on here have made it through, and so will you. This is going to be a much better year for you, and you and your wee boy will get through it together.

I'm so sorry to ask this and I know i don't deserve this but can anybody help me please i'm really at the end of my rope.

Dp's mum died last night. she was a lovely woman who he adored and its going to be a long slow recovery for him from this I think. His parents live in another part of the country and he has been there for the last few days with his dad. me and ds were there with him til friday. I had to say goodbye to her and let her see ds for the last time it was totally heartbreaking, and also brought back terrible memories (my father also died in a similar way several years ago).

Dp is devastated and I feel just terrible for him. On a selfish note, I have not slept properly for a week, and have continual headaches and migraines am honestly in continual pain, often cant see properly and my whole body is rigid with tension. My son has been screaming since about midday today and I'm afraid I am not coping anymore.

My sister is ignoring me again even though she knew dp's mum was dying and i find this deeply hurtful and am actually fizzing with resentment that she has not even bothered to ask how she or dp are. She claims to be supportive but I would have given anything for some help today- have never asked before-but she has ignored my texts asking her to get in touch and my best friend has not responded either- these are the only 2 people I have in rl. am scared i will end up saying something I may later regret to my sister over this as i cant bear her being so callous when my dp an his family are hurting so badly.

also my breast milk is drying up I dont know why and am gutted.

I screamed at ds today to just please please shut up and am so ashamed of myself, hes only tiny and none of this is his fault. I just want to curl up in a ball and cry for hours. I cant do this anymore I cant look after ds on my own all thetime but obviously dp has other things to deal with, my heart is aheing for him and his dad and I must be strong and support them through this.

sorry for all this I just have no one to turn to been alone all weekend and am cracking up.

Lela, it is just fine to ask and you absolutely do deserve help, ok? I'm so sorry for yours and dp's loss - that's really sad. It's nice, though heartbreaking, that she got to see her wee grandson again.

I'm also so sorry you're not getting the real life support that you need. If you can, though, try to bit your tongue to your sister and best friend just now - vent and rant on here as much as you like, but try not to say things to people in the heat of the moment you may later regret.

I know, and I'm imagining so does your dp, that you absolutely do have the inner strength to get all of you through this. It will be hard, and it's so terribly unfair on all of you, but you will hang on in there, and get through.

As for ds, lela - jeez, you're not the first and will not be the last to have screamed at a baby. My two have both heard "What the FUCK DO YOU WANT???!!" more times than I care to admit, in the midst of stress/sleep deprivation/whatever. Our relationships appear to be surviving intact, and it's no bad thing to get into the habit of apologising to your children! dd knows I get things wrong, and also knows that I'll say sorry when I do, and really seems to appreciate it. When you get angry with ds, (which you will, even though it's not his fault, because it's just too bloody hard sometimes), make sure he's somewhere safe, and then walk away. Punch pillows, scream,. throw things, and let it out. Wash your face and get yourself calm, and then get ds and cuddle him.

The milk thing may be one of those things where you think it's running out but it isn't - that's most likely, in fact - how old is ds now? I know I went through patches with dd where I was sure I was just running out; it may be a growth spurt, it may be some changes to the way your body is behaving. What makes you think your milk is running out?

Don't be sorry, lela - this is the whole point of this thread. Use it to crack up, to offload, to vent, and keep yourself sane for your wee family.

Thank you habbibu. I'm so glad you have sworn at your kids too (iyswim). Its just the constant gurning when I am blinded by a migraine i just cant take it.

He's just fallen asleep- thank fuck. I'm not angry with my best friend, she just wasn't contactable today, and has tied to call me this eve but I couldn't speak due to ds srceaming because he'd finshed his bottle. I am sickened by my sister because shes been so incredibly thoughtless and I find that kind of carelessness very hard to relate to. when dp is hurting it hurts me.

I think my milk is drying up because he doesn't seem to be getting anything out of my breasts anymore and gets all agitated as a result. I squeeze the nipple and nothing comes out. I also havent had that heavy hard feeling first thing in the morning for the last couple days when usually they are full of milk and leaking.

Whe I have slept I take on the world and deal with all of this, but with the lack of it and the headaches I am really falling apart here.

Oh, jeez, migraines. You poor love.

And oh, yes, I have sworn. DH was fairly sure DS's first word would be some kind of expletive, since he's heard my whole range several times over.

And I do understand how much your sister's actions are hurting you, I really do - I'm just saying try as hard as you can to put it to one side just now - it's so easy in times of pain to think well, fuck you, but you need to have a clear head to really look at any relationship you have, and all your emotional energy just now needs to be saved for you, ds and dp.

Practicalities of ds - The fussing at the breast isn't unusual, though it is an utter PITA. The change you feel in your breasts is fairly usual - your body starts to make just the right amount, rather than oversupply, iyswim? The way the baby removes milk from the breast is not the same as you do when hand expressing, so none of these things on their own are necessarily indicators that you're losing supply. He may be having a wee growth spurt, which is, for better or worse, resolved by letting him feed as often as possible (and I can hear you groaning at that!). Have a look at this anyway, as it may help you establish whether there is a problem, or if it's a temporary and ill-timed pain in the arse.

You could post a copy and paste of that bit of your message in breast and bottle feeding to get some advice - I remember that when dd went through a very fussy phase, switch nursing, where you swap sides when they fuss, get dozy or lose interest, worked well - at one point I was swapping every minute, but it was short-lived, and worked well.

Get some rest while you can. Are there painkillers you can take to take the edge off the migraines? Can you bring ds into bed with you - do you think that might get you more sleep?

So sorry for your loss lela. Its so very sad for you all.
I've sworn too perfectly normal I'd say...
Would agree with habbibu about the BF - I stopped leaking & getting engorged, seemingly overnight. Its the supply/demand thing getting super finely tuned between you & DS. Fussing - yes to this too. My let-down of milk used to take a minute or two & she was extremely impatient, popping off & on, squirming and generally being a pain in the bum (she has the patience of her Dad - i.e. nil). Made me tense which I'm sure made the problem worse in that the let-down then took longer.
Could you go back to your PIL's and stay there with DP? You would get some help then with DS & maybe it would help your FIL a bit to have his grandson around?

Thank you so much both of you. Habbibu that link was very useful, I didn't know about the changes in your breasts feeling less full etc. I do think I've started producing less milk because I've been giving him more bottles at night though in order to try and get some sleep. It also says that just because the baby will take a bottle after you've tried to breastfeed doesnt necessarily mean they are still hungry, but he cries til he gets a bottle then if you remove it from his mouth at any point to wipe his chin etc he goes nuts, so i think he must be.

The dr has prescribed me cocodamol for the migraines.

Jetli- I have said to dp that I will go back to his prents any time (was there til Fri) but the house is too small for us al so have to stay at friends will be there for funeral and after so dont want to outstay out welcome. I would like to be there looking after dp and his dad who is a lovely man who was never apart from his wfe in over 40 years, and yes I think ds will be a tonic for him.

You are both so kind for replying, thank you x

Hi Lelarose

So sorry to hear that things are really tough. It honestly does get better although i know it probably seems hollow just saying that now.

Tbh I don't think you are unusual in feeling really upset at the thought of never having a girl. I'm feeling something similar at the moment as due to relationship issues I doubt that I will be trying for a baby again and the prospect of any baby, but especially a girl is very remote for me. It's been hard getting rid of the baby stuff and bottles and wondering if and how it can ever happen again.

The thing is I do so love my son now. He really is so lovely, especially as he has started to interact properly (still not by talking but slyly pointing to everything he wants) and being so naughty and cute that I want to smother him with kisses for being so cheeky when he is still not asleep and grizzling at 9pm, that when I ask him what on earth does he want and he grins at me and points downstairs (not a chance, son!).

I also understand about your reactions to your sister - my family are really crap at dealing with anything bad so i have to continually cheerlead and pretend nothing is wrong as they simply cannot deal with it. Unfortunately sometimes people are crap at dealing with things and it's really disappointing when you should be able to rely on them, but it is their problem, not yours.

I am so sorry to hear that your dp's mother has died too. Glad that his mother saw and knew your son but it is awful to go through especially at this time for both of you.

Re your concerns about bf; at around the same time I had a similar fear that my milk was drying up (think I posted a thread) as my boobs seemed to be permanently empty and my ds seemed to be unsatisfied. I used to be able to express a 5 oz bottle in 10 mins on each boobn and it went to below 2 oz for both pretty much overnight.

I was advised that it is quite common to lose an ability to express (your body is just doing the supply and demand thing and getting better at it so you don't have more than you need), but there are other medical and herbal ways to increase supply. I found stress could affect my letdown so this may be what you are experiencing atm too.

Re increasing supply: herbally try fenugreek capsules (from H&B or similar). Medically you could ring your doctor and ask to be prescribed domperidone (anti-reflux drug) that can have a side effect of increasing milk supply. (I asked my GP and got it). If your doctor will not supply it (mine initially had never heard of the effect of boosting supply) you can actually buy it over the counter, but i think it goes under at different name. In any case it is fine to take while bf. I took both fenugreek and domperidone for a couple of weeks and stopped as it definately seemed to work and my boobs became slightly engorged again.

And at 19months still producing enough milk to satisfy my little piggy's craving for more milk than ever so don't think that this is necessarily the end.

I have occasionally yelled in frustration at my son too. I was so ashamed once that i asked a friend who was totally attach parenting if she had ever just cried to her baby to just shut up. Yup she had, many, many times, and every other mum I have asked has done the same at least once. You are the main care-giver and you would not be human if once in a while you gave into your frustration in times of stress. Babies will not suffer for an occasional scream of vexation - they scream, you scream meh. They just remember that when they want food, comfort or a cuddle you will be there and they are safe and snug in your arms.

I really sympathise with the migraines though as a fellow sufferer. It would be great for you to be able to get more sleep as that can stop it but I find that if you get a bad one you can get clusters for a while after. Keep on forgetting to go to the doctors as they are really infrequent but was told there is some prescription medication for migraine (don't know if compatible with bf though)

Finally hugs. You are not alone and you will get through this x

What a great and very thoughtful post fluffy, its good to hear from you again and thanks for the advice re bf- you are still doing it at 19 months- wow!

Re the gender thing- I'm so glad you understand. I'm not young enough to say oh well I'll just be able have more kids and am also really scared of pregnancy after this time, so not only may I never have a girl but my son may also have to be an only child which is not what I would ever have wanted for him.

Interestingly I had various conversations over xmas with relatives etc with young kids, who, with no prompting from me all mentioned the gender thing. One had 2 girls and was pregnant again and openly admitted they were hoping for a boy- she said she knew people who only had boys who kept on trying just so they could get a girl but that she didnt think people who had all girls generally felt as strongly about trying for a boy. Another woman when asked if she was havng any more kids said no cos I have one of each (gender) and another said when she had her next she hoped it was a girl as "all women want girls really". I never mentioned the gender issue once yet other, "normal" people brought it up so that made me feel a bit better.

They are on about this right now on the news cos of Victoria Beckham- it seems to be acceptable for her to want a girl. Wouldn't be surprised if she's had gender selection IVF over in the states. According to people on a thread about that on this site its "abhorrent" (massively overused word) to have a gender preference- dont you just love all these knee jerk reactions from the preachy judgey brigade who have nothing better to get up in arms about than other people's feelings. I didnt choose to have a preference for a girl - I hated myself for it to the extent I felt I didn't even want o live, but thre you go, many people would be disgusted by me.

Rant over- sorry.

And fluffy, I do really love my boy too, can't help it, he's just too gorgeous x

Lelarose - meant to post this to you before.

When my two DS were small they went to a church playgroup. There was an elderly lady who helped out. I used to chat to her and one day she told me about her 3 sons.

She said she was so ashamed about how she had reacted when her DS3 was born. She said she could barely look at him and was devastated that he wasnt a girl as she knew this would be her last child.

She said her 3rd son ended up bringing her untold joy. He was a wonderful child and was now a surgeon and she couldnt be more proud of him. She said he came to see her every wednesday on his own without fail and always brought her flowers. He then went again each weekend with his wife and children.

She said he was the kindest man and she couldnt imagine her life without him ....

I think there are many many many people who have these subconcious feelings - but it doesnt mean you wont have a lovely lovely relationship with your gorgeous boy. x

Im so sorry about your MIL x

Thank you for telling me that Kizzie, thats very thoughtful of you. I can totally appreciate the sentiment because I do love my little baby boy so much already. I still feel sad that I'll probably never have a daughter but it really isn't any reflection on him, he is beautiful and I'm immensely proud of him.

I am very sleep deprived today and I hope my previous post didn't sound like I was being bitchy or trying to get into some kind of discussion of gender selection or something (I am really, most definitely not), I was just referring to the feelings of longing for a daughter and how bad I felt for having these when I was expecting a boy.

Anyway, I do have life in perspective with what has happened to my beloved dp and you know the love and respect that he has for his mum and the close relationship he always had with her gives me a lot of hope for the future with my son.

Very anxious today- doing silly things like checking dp is still breathing all the time when he is sleeping in his pram and fretting about him being too hot or too cold. Its like that when someone dies quite suddenly, its like nothing quite feels safe anymore.

I have just shut the door on my baby who has been crying all morning despite being continually fed and changed and I am so exhausted I would happily smack my head off the wall til I pass out.

I have no support and I cant do this anymore. I find this unbearable, the constant crying I have not slept my house is chaos I cant get anythoing done.

Yes this is all part of having a baby but I have worked out that over the last 11 weeks ago I have had a total of 4 hours separation from , him- 2 lots of 2 hours when left with dp to go to shops.

I am on the edge and have to be ok for dp right now. I cant bear the noise he is making I am beyond exhausted I need this to stop. I have to get out today and get something to wear to the funeral.

What do I do? I have no one here.

Hi lela. OK, when this happens to me, and I've tried all the usual things like you have, I would next be exploring whether your DS is ill - by this I mean, check his temp and do a very quick strip & look for any rashes or discolouration on his torso. If there's nothing there, clothes back on, and exactly as you've done, lay them down somewhere where they are safe & therefore can't hurt themselves & shut the door. My usual was to swaddle DD lightly, put her in her pram & shut her in the downstairs bathroom because that was the darkest room in the house. Usually within 20 minutes, she would completely conk out. In the meantime I would lie down with a gin & tonic . My other solution is to do the same thing but rather than put here somewhere dark & quiet, I would take her out in the pram for a walk along the main road near my house - it is quite busy so the traffic noise drowns the screaming a bit & invariably again she would conk out within about 20 minutes. Some folks would swear by the car but I could never bear her screaming in the car as it ruined my concentration and I felt it was too dangerous for both of us.

I agree the noise is unbearable but I always tried to remember that it is meant to be unbearable. I'm pretty sure I read about a study where they monitored Mum's & Dad's reactions to crying babies, and women have an extremely strong physical reaction - all sorts of stress hormones released, and a raise in blood pressure - proper physical symptoms, not just some vague emotional response. Its the way we are designed and have evolved. It helped me to know that I didn't have much control really over my reactions to incessant crying... I did however find gin to be really helpful when pushed to the limit

What to do about the shopping... Have you got any late night opening somewhere local? I'm close to Meadowhall so lucky in that respect. Is it too late for an order from the Next directory or anything like that. I've been known to drag DD out to the local 24 hour Tesco & Asda in some circumstances, very late at night. When they're little I didn't think it really mattered whether they were asleep in a cot or being wheeled around the supermarket in a pram at 11pm. They barely know the difference between day & night anyway...

Back to the BF - this is a terribly personal question I know, but have your periods restarted yet? Mine came back when DD was about 4 or 5 months from memory - she went for long stretches at night & so I think the BF hormones couldn't keep my periods at bay any longer. Anyway to get to the point, I found I got a bit of a dip in supply just before I came on every few weeks. Apparently this is quite common. Once I came on, supply was fine. It dipped for probably 36 hours before I reckon.

I'm local to Sheffield if it's any use to you at all... I pick DD up around 5 & we have no plans this evening if you need some help. I mean it.

Thank you jetli. Please god dont let me be proved wrong but I don't think he is ill. I think he is tired and fighting sleep (I always did this as a child, am starting to see why my mother never liked me haha) and also he cant handle me not paying constant attention to him, because when I stop try to attend to my outrageously self indulgent demands such as having a shower or drying my hair, and try and talk to him he often starts smiling, them as soon as I step away the whingeing and crying starts.

I have just had a melt down as am so sleep deprived I forgot how to attach the car seat to the pram (travel system thing) anmd it was the final straw.

He has now shut up and I'm taking him out- he will usually sleep in the car.

When I say what will I do I guess I dont just mean today I mean this is my future- alone with the baby all the time. Dp is now saying he doesn't want to leave his dad over the next while so I dont think he will be home much for the foreseeable future, and as he is used to me having to cope alone because of my job he will take it for granted that this is ok. And what can I say? His dad will need help and support, his problems are worse than mine.

I just cannot do ths alone anymore, I really really cant- not without sleep. If I could sleep maybe, but not like this.

ps if i lived anywhere near you I would probably accept your very kind offer- thank you xx

Lela, which part of the country are you in? Any MN'ers who could physically help?

Hi lela - DD was about 4 or 5 months when she became what felt to be constantly whingy. DP came home one night to me in pieces and just shoved a dummy in her mouth & we never looked back - twas instant relief. Does he have a dummy? I was strongly against it to be fair, but the relief from constant whittering and being miserable was immense. And don't bother with any orthodontic fanciness - get the cheapest "cherry" dummy. In my experience they won't entertain anything else, and I probably wasted £20 or £30 on nonsense dummies. Just throwing ideas around here now so feel free to tell me to shut the f* up

DP does have responsibilities to you as well though lela - does he know how DS is behaving for you just now?

(As for car seats, prams, cots etc I am convinced that all baby-related paraphenalia has been put on this earth to frustrate & annoy us - wait until the high chair comes out - that'll make you swear as well. Toe stubbing is a favourite thing - I think ours is possessed. And the time I've wasted wrestling with bloody car seats when I could have been having something nice like a shower!).

Lela- dashing in and out - remember that he won't always be a baby. He'll get older, begin to understand more, get more independent, and one day you'll find yourself in the shower just saying hi to him as he wanders in and out. The first few months are hard, but they do get better, so this really is just now and not forever, ok.

The devilish thing about babies is that they are buggers for reacting to your mood. Which they brought down in the first place, naturally. It's a real vicious circle. Getting out and about is usually the best thing, and do nice things for yourself, like coffee, cake, new book/DVD etc to regain your equilibrium.

And you are nothing like your mother. your love for this little one shines through every post. You're a good mother, who just happens to be normal.

Thank you all. Terrible day. Have run out of language to describe how tired I am.

Jetli- damn straight he has a dummy- has done since 3 weeks old thank god, although hes not as dependent on it as I thought he might get.

I really hate myself for what I did today. By the time we got to the shops he was calm and good as gold while I basically wheeled him round four HOURS fretting about wanting to look alright at the funeral so that dp's relatives think he has done ok for himself- as if anyone but stupid neurotic self obsessed me will be giving a shit what I look like on such an occaision. Problems I have with stuff like this are that I really hate the shape of my body now as I've put on so much weight I look terrible and nothing that I would usually wear looks ok anymore and I'm also just generally a bit obsessive about having to look ok, which I never do anymore, hence why I am worrying about this shit at a time like this- although I do not have any appropriate clothes for a funeral (and still dont despite looking in every shop in the centre).

Anyway, I hate myself because all the time that poor child was being wheeled round shop after shop, he could have been being played with, talked to, sung to, interacted with, but no- I'm such a shit mother that I just let him sit in his pram staring at me with big sad eyes all day (not for the first time) whilst I got in a state about not having the right bloody clothes. Then we got home really late and the whole routine (such as it is) went totally tits up and hes only now starting to nod off on my lap as he gurned so much when I tried to put him to bed- I'm scared to move him.

I do agree that dp has a responsibility to us as well as his dad, but frankly I will never be able to compete with the relationship he has with his parents- he is an only child and they are all very close (he has had the polar opposite upbringing to me).

Thanks for listening to me- no one else does and you are, sad to admit, the only people I can talk to right now.

(ds now wide awake and appears to be glued to a tv programme about fishing in the north sea. oh well at least he's quiet). wish me luck as I attempt to move...

Hi, yes we are taking him to the funeral.

another night without enough sleep to feel sane. trying to get him ready to go to bounce and rhyme group to make up for lack of attention yesterday but constant crying and grizzling.

have just screamed repeatedly and banged my head off the wall.

I know this is not right but I dont know how to get help.

lela - have to get dd soon, but look around you next time you go shopping - every mother does exactly what you did. He was probably fascinated by everything he saw; you just thoght it was sad eyes because you're feeling rotten and guilty. You don't need to make up for anything. Hope group was ok. Your ds is FINE. hONESTLY. wILL CHECK BACK SOON. gah sorru about caps.