Lelarose Desperately Depressed #2

[thatsnotmymonkey]

Hi Lela, I hope this is OK, come over here. We will all be here for you. xx

I can imagine that having a difficult childhood means that you might well want everything to be perfect for your own children - it's pretty much par for the course for first-time mothers anyway, but in your circumstances I bet it's even more pressing. But you are putting far too much pressure on yourself. Your ds is what, 11 weeks or so? Imagine you wake up and suddenly you're in, I don't know, Finland, or Japan. You're with someone who makes you feel comfortable and safe, so you're not worried, but you have no idea what people are saying, everything looks different and fascinating, and everything is new. After 11 weeks you'd still just be interested in the very newness and interestingness of it all- well, that goes 100-fold for a baby.

And babies are wee buggers for going through grousy phases - I swear they're trying to see how much it will take to get them put in the bin. DS gets threatened with recycling every other day. My mum and her friend worked in residential baby care for years before they had their own children. Mum's friend had 7 children, and despite her experience, her calmness, her adherence to routine and her no-nonsense attitude, every one of those babies was a terrible crier. They were all shocking sleepers, as well. And you could not find a more experienced, savvy mother than this woman. Her family have grown up happy, close and loving with big families of their own, and she's still very much in one piece. BUT - when my mum met her, she was just coming out of what they then termed a nervous breakdown, and that was my mum describes her is as a timid shaking wreck - she didn't start out the brilliant, tough savvy woman I knew.

What I'm trying to say is that your baby is who he is, and there's only so much you can do to "make him happy". Some babies just go through protracted whingy phases, and your job there is really just to maintain your own sanity and ensure his basic needs are met. Then grit your teeth and utter the famous mantra "it's just a phase." Over and over again.

None of what you're doing is wrong. You sound like a Normal tired overwrought new mother at a time of great stress. The second he sleeps, have a sleep, have a bath, watch a DVD, anything, and if you need to get through this patch, then let him sleep on you sometimes while you slump in front of the TV - routines can always be restarted, and if you're travelling it'll be screwed a bit anyway.

PS Babies don't do big sad eyes. If they're out of sorts they cry. Full stop. What you saw was fascinated eyes, taking it all in.

Jeez! the way my mum describes her, not "that was".

Thanks habbibu. I wish I could do those things whilst he sleeps but being on my own means if I get any time at all its taken up with basic housework or eating etc- my house is as mess btw I'm not overly perfectionist about it.

I do feel like I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown too.

Just spoke to my psychologist and told her 'i'm not coping. She was helpful enough i guess, I'm just not very good with relaxation exercises- mind too busy, no patience etc. Told me to go to a&e if things get toomuch, it may come to that if i dont sleep soon, but I'd be really ashamed.

One thing that I think might help make things a little more manageable for me, though I really hate to say this, is giving up breast feeding. I feel very guilty and selfish for that though so don't know if I can.

Look, you've done twice as much as most, so don't feel guilty. Your son has had a cracking start, under very stressful circumstances. It is an emotional decision to take, though, so try to think it through calmly. talk it over on here first, try to get people's experiences, and think through the pros and cons for you and your situation.

You are doing so well Lela, especially as you are doing this on your own at the moment. I totally understand about the lack of sleep and managing depression and being able to cope.

If you can, and I expect everyone tells you this anyway, try to sleep whenever your son does to keep your sleep topped up. Have you tried co-sleeping at all? I wasn't sure about it at all until I accidently tried it when my ds was around five months when i fed him lying down in bed for the first time and we both fell back to sleep, instead of sitting rigidly up in bed with a pillow and then trying to pick him up and transfer him to the cot without waking him. I don't know how I would have survived without that extra sleep.

Now a year on I actually get far less sleep than a year ago as my monster will no longer co-sleep and if brought to bed will promptly either bounce on me or just slide off the bed and wander round the room clucking happily while he puts any available electronic gadgets into the pint glass of water beside my bed. Oh the joys.

I understand about maybe wanting to stop bf if it can help you cope better. You have done fantastically well to get this far and no-one is going to judge you. If you are not sure that you want to give up, you could try perhaps introducing some formula just in the evening / night and see how it goes?

I desperately wanted to ebf my ds but because of my major post birth mh problems I wasn't able to and introduced ff from 3 weeks and mixed fed until 8 weeks when my ds very unexpectedly rejected the bottle. Formula isn't poison and there are advantages in mixed feeding when you have mh problems in that it is more filling so a feed may be quicker and it can give you more of a sense of routine, especially at night - e.g. you can go to bed thinking well my ds had a feed an hour ago, he will probably wake in x hours for another one.

whether or not he will do this is a completely different matter, but it can be a mental help when you are lying in bed exhausted and trying to go to sleep but unable to as you cannot relax as your baby may wake any second for a feed.

Whatever you decide, do it for you and you alone. your son has had all the benefits of bf for five months, but he needs a mother more who can have enough sleep to cope at a really difficult time when you haven't got much support.

ps I have a funeral dress, a really plain, sober black dress that I intended to get rid of because it was too drab to be a lbd, but then after several years of lurking in the wardrobe with tags I looked it out for several funerals which unfortunately have happened this year.

Looking at your wardrobe, is there anything that you can wear - doesn't have to be black or a dress that you can fling a smart coat over with some accessories? Please don't worry about your appearence and trying to impress his family; as someone whose family members died this year I can honestly say that i don't think it registered at all what other people were wearing. And i wouldn't have judged at all or remembered (except if it was a fluffy pink bikini maybe).

Take care x

Hi, thats me back. Funeral went well as could be expected- ds was there and behaved beautifully I was extremely proud, he held onto his daddy's hand throughout the service and dp's dad made a speech saying how happy his mum has been to have a little grandson. Ds was passed around all the relatives after the service and beamed his little face off at everyone, he was brilliant and I was bursting with pride.

Thanks for your post fluffy. I wasn't trying to impress dp's family and I know no one but me cared about my appearance, it was just insecurity about how I look/ looking appropriate- have had this since childhood. As for the feeding situation, I have no problemm with formula- ds has been having bottles at night since he was 3 weeks old when I discovered they made him sleep longer no more sadly).

He is 12 weeks now and still has bottles at night, but now waking every 2-3 hours and I am not coping with the lack of sleep at all. Just spent the last few days trying to keep it together fpr dp, who is still staying with his dad, but am really really struggling to be sole carer for ds on so little sleep.

I just need to figure out how to keep him fuller longer at night.

Hi Lela,

Glad funeral went as well as it could, and that ds brought some joy to a sad day - you should be proud of both you and him. Just posting and running, but this blog can be quite helpful, and may give you an idea that this is not forever!

Am so glad the funeral went ok and that your son was a comfort to you and dp's family and that he was a little star throughout.

I really sympathise with the lack of sleep. At four months there is a growth spurt i seem to remember so maybe that is the reason? It is just a phase but it is hellish when you have no support. Is there anyone who you trust implicitly and would be able to help for just one night so you can recharge? Or even for just an afternoon?

If not, I'm not sure but if the problem may be teething you may be able to give homeopathic teething powders like Ashton & Parsons / Nelsons (from any chemist) if you haven't tried them as they are meant to be soothing.

As they are homeopathic there shouldn't be anything that would be at all harmful becauseit'sbollocks but just maybe it might work for your ds.

I really feel for you. It's just a phase, you will not be sleep deprived or alone forever, but it's a really shite stage nevertheless.

He's only 12 weeks- isn't that a little early for teething?

Everything seems to be about wanting to be fed with him. Wanted to breastfeed til 6 months but I can bf him for an hour and he'll still cry for a bottle.

No one I know would take him overnight sadly.

lelarose I'm not an expert on breastfeeding but if you're feeding for an hour and he isn't satisfied then maybe there is a problem with him latching on?
I just wanted to say that the whole breastfeeding issue is so difficult and emotive but if you do decide to put him on formula then don't beat yourself up about it.
I had to switch to formula at three weeks and was devastated initially but as time passed I really now feel it was the best thing. DD was well nourished and more settled, and I always cuddled her whilst I fed her.
I always feel a twinge when I see mothers breastfeeding but fortunately I know a few mums in the same boat.
I hope you're feeling a little better; it must be really hard with no support network around you.

Dont know if posting this will help but here goes nothing.

My mental health is now completely fucked up and I don't really understand whats happening.

I suddenly (within the last few days) have started feelng like I don't love my son enough. There I have said it. I can't explain it- he had a massive growth spurt and is now a very large baby who doesn't feel like mine anymore- his features have changed too (all totally normal, its me that's wierd) and I feel I dont have a real bond with him anymore.

I am horribly unhappy, I was so desperate for a baby and now I have one I feel dead inside half the time. I am obsessed again that I wish he had been a girl and it is getting too much to bear.

I fantasise about running away and ending my life because I can't love my child like I want to or ever be happy, but I know I can't do this to my dp, especially not now.

Have totally messed up breast feeding too and am wracked with guilt about this- he was fine with it, I only gave him bottles so I could get more sleep and now I feel terrible about that as well as he cant get milk from me anymore.

This is so sore.

Everything feels wrong. I dont have pd I'm just a fucking freak.

Lela, you don't know me, I used to post as Mummy2Robbie, (I posted back when you were still expecting and for a few weeks after DS was born. I had to rename myself due to (a) my habit of putting my foot in it and (b)was told that nicknames with mummy in are naff and should only be on netmums??? Anyway, I'm sorry to see you are having a hard time, but you are not a freak, you are sleep deprived and very stressed. The feeling of being trapped, wanting to die, but knowing that I couldn't leave my DH to deal with DS on his own are very familiar. It will get better. There are a few practical things that I do when I have been at my worst that I was thinking of sharing if that doesn't feel to condescending, but I know you are very resourceful and probably have loads of strategies anyway. And don't worry about the formula (easier said than done). In ten years time you will not be looking at all your DS's classmates and thinking "well they were obviously breastfed, ooh that one must be a formula fed child", honestly you won't give a hoot. Will check in on you later today.

Thanks for the replies, am open to any suggestions I want to beat this so badly.

The reason I feel so guilty about the breast feeding is that I had a good milk supply and he was really good at it. I just gave him one bottle of formula at night because it meant I could get more sleep and I find my feelings almost impossible to deal with when totally sleep deprived.

This then escalated to two bottles at night and then occaisionally one during the day. And now my milk is drying up and I feel so so so bad about it- have spoken to hv, called helplines, tried expressing between feeds, am drinking fenugreek all day. I wish this had never happened, I really really want to breast feed him, its very important to me. I can only now manage one feed first thing in the morning. I feel so selfish for letting this happen, I never would have done it if I'd known it would end up like this.

Dp is away seeing his dad for another 3 days yet. I saw my psychologist today and she says she thinks I have great bond with my son, but I dont think I have the mental or physical energy to deal with a growing boy, I'm not up to being the kind of mother he deserves.

Hi Lela, these are just some ways I have got through tough days, you may already be doing them, but just in case there is anything in my experience that might help, this is how I survived feeling suicidal.

1. Only think about each day in 2 hour chunks maximum. Focus on what you need to do to get through the next ten minutes, half an hour. Don't think about the future at all, just think about now and what you actually need to do - wash up, change a nappy, buy wet wipes at shop whatever it is, just stay in the here and now.
2. Try and distract yourself from the bad thoughts. I know the counsellor I had gave me a relaxation cd, but I just couldn't use it because I was too tense waiting for DS to scream. Instead I did all sorts of odd things like listening to radio4 and waiting til there was a word that began with "a" then one with "b" til I got through the whole alphabet. I would listen to music and visualise the words in my head. I would imagine the thought into a bubble and pop it, or make it an animal and put it in a cage.
3. Allocate time for when you will allow yourself a really good worry. When worries come onto your head, say to myself, I will deal with that when I speak to the counsellor but not now, my brain needs a rest to come up with better solutions.
4. Expect to be knackered and be kind to yourself.

Fighting bad thoughts is so exhausting, and coupled with looking after a young baby is so much to deal with. So anything that saves time and effort is a good thing, whether it's ready meals, a cleaner, Internet shopping, whatever helps.

1. Keep the faith that it will pass. It will pass, really it will and you will look at your boy in awe at every little achievement he makes. And you will have a silly smile on your face whenever you think of him.

I don't know if any of that helps at all, but I wanted to
share my strategies just in case there was one idea
you hadn't tried. None of them fixed it, only time did that; but they just helped me survive hour to hour.

I hope you will soon feel more at ease re: breastfeeding. It won't seem such a huge thing even in a few months time. I know I said it before, but when he and his friends are 10 years old it will totally irrelevant.

Take care, thinking of you.

And you are being a great mum, he couldn't have anyone who cares more about his welfare than you obviously do. Your love for him shines through all your posts. Hold on Lela, it's going to get better, and you are going to be so glad you toughed it out.

Thank you socialhandgrenade, those are actually very useful tips.

Do you mind me asking why did you feel so low and how did it pass? (obviously you dont have to answer its not my business).

I feel so strongly about breastfeeding because I had a terible pregnancy and birth and feel as if I have to get at least something right for him iyswim.

I managed to bf him last night anyway so at least thats something, but of course have not really slept as a result. and now trting to feed him again and its not working so he's getting frustrated.

Oh well. One hour at a time.

Lelarose, I found this thread for the first time after you posted some kind and sensible words on my thread earlier. It was really kind of you to help me despite having a tough time.

I can see you have had some great advice on this thread already but I wanted to add my voice to those saying that stopping BF may be the way forward for you. I struggled desperately when DS was born, BF added to my stress and made me more sleep deprived- it became a vicious circle. I was really really low, dreading DS waking because I would have to feed him. Believe it or not my lovely HV convinced me that switching to a bottle was not so bad. After a day of terrible guilt I began to feel so much better. Please please don't feel you have failed if you stop BF- it's ok it really is.

Your son may well be teething, it's not uncommon at 12 weeks. DS had 2 bottom teeth come through at this age. If I remember correctly 12 weeks is old enough for calpol. You could consider giving him some. I realise its difficult decision to give that pink sticky sweet smelling liquid when your baby has had nothing but milk until now- but my stance way that pain relief is the right way to go if DS was in pain.

Thinking of you and wishing you a good day, with one hour at a time.

I don't mind you asking, I'm not sure myself exactly. There is a strong family history of depression on my dad's side of the family. I think I had mild-moderate PND from about four weeks after DS was born. I was functioning and caring for DS but had no pleasure in it, that dead feeling iyswim. It became severe when I returned to work, I had real issues with trusting my in-laws with looking after DS and was unable to focus or concentrate. I then became crap at my job and hated myself. My DH persuaded me into selling our home, renting a ropey flat and renovating a house. It all got too much and I just wanted out of my life. Things have changed over the past 8 months, we're out of the horrible flat and I've got childcare I'm comfortable with. I've had a nice health visitor and my medication properly reviewed by the CMHT. I've had a bit of cbt too. Things will change for you too. Breastfeeding seemed so important to me when DS was 3 months and I ended up doing mixed feeding because DS screamed through every breastfeed. I worried that it was because he was delivered by e-c-section and it was because it was because I was on ADs during pregnancy (i now think he was just because he found the bottle easier and had the hump about making extra effort for boob feed) By 6 months I was all wound up about whether to be doing baby-led weaning or purées instead! Now DS is 2.5 years the breast/formula worries, then the weaning crisis seem completely irrelevant. He is lively, funny, he is my gorgeous boy. He has the same eating habits as all the other toddlers born in my nct group most of whom were exclusively bf'd for at least a year. They all only want to eat crisps and biscuits and won't sit at the table for more than 5 minutes.
I hope some of that helps. Thinking of you.

Lela, you've already breastfed your boy for far longer than most women in the UK. I absolutely understand the complicated emotional issues involved in stopping bf, but you have given your son a great start, and as socialhandgrenade says, these worries fade and when you look back they just seem not relevant.

My best friend had PND with her first child, and tied this very much into anxieties over feeding - she was very determined to bf her second, but actually found her anxieties relaxed when she accepted that it wasn't working for her or her ds. This, of course, was made much easier by being able to see her healthy and developmentally normal (and lovely) first child. Her ds is now a strapping 15 mo, and just lovely as well. It still kind of amazes me to see and hear him, when she was so adamant that the PND had been so horrific she could never contemplate another child - I think it amazes her too, but she is genuinely happy and well now.

I think shg's tips are fantastic - accepting fears and worries but not allowing them to dominate all your life is really helpful, I think - love the R4 trick!

fwiw, ds was ebf for almost 6 mo, and would now subsist entirely on cake if he got the opportunity, especially that obtained by stealth or outright theft.

Lela,

I know it's very un-PC for me to say so, but I honestly believe that BF made my PND worse (with both of my DC's.) I felt trapped, smothered by the responsibility of it all. The relief when I stopped feeding them both was immense. I was in a mother and baby unit with PND after having DD2, and had a number of conversations with the staff there about the link between BF and PND. They all felt that it had a real link - in terms of sleep deprivation, the response of some women to the hormones flooding around them and the psychological impact of being the only person who can feed as well as the pressure that's placed upon mothers to breastfeed. Hearing that from MH professionals really helped me to set aside my sense of guilt for stopping feeding and realise that it was the best thing for all of us.

I recognise those feelings you describe of not loving your child anymore. I vividly remember feeling that way when DD2 was about 2 months old. At the time, I believed I was the worst mother in the world. I can now look back and understand just how poorly I was. You are very poorly, too. It's one of the most evil parts of PND that it actually stops you from understanding how ill you are, and instead turns all that inwards. It was DD2's first birthday this week. I honestly didn't think I'd live to see it. But I have, and I know I've turned a corner and everything's going to be OK. The same can be true for you and your DS. Hang on, and do whatever it takes - giving up breastfeeding, putting DS with a childminder for a few hours a week if you can afford it (DD2 was with a childminder for 2 mornings a week from 4 or 5 months).

Yes the breast feeding and all the pressure that goes with it is very hard. I don't know which is harder though- that or the guilt of giving up. I'm learning that motherhood, for me anyway, means constantly lowering my standards and accepting this is just not going to be how I wanted.

I have just told dp to stay away longer if he wants. He's with his father and only coming home out of guilt so I said just stay there. We had argued on the phone and he had said he needs counselling due to our relationship (life just gets better). When he's home its so much pressure on us both as i am trying to cover up being at breaking point and he is grieving.

dontrunwithscissors I'm so glad you are past the worst- how did you get better?

I reached a real low on Saturday and contemplated calling the mental health crisis team, but what purpose would it serve really?

I wanted a baby so so much, much more than dp and look where its got me. I hate my life and pity my child growing up with me. Funny old world eh.

Motherhood is generally a case of lowering your standards for everyone, I think. My 16mo ds is currently obsessed with Octonauts, after all my po-facedness about children and TV.

This is a dip, lela, another of the many you've been through and come out the other side. So many things are hard for you right now - what you and dp have been through would strain any relationship, and tbh, I'd take heart from the fact that your dp is seeking counselling - it's a really wise and sensible thing to do, to actually face up to his stresses and try to address them, just as you've been doing by going to counselling and talking here. I think it's almost inevitable that you'd be arguing and feeling rotten atm; I don't know many people who wouldn't in your situation. That doesn't mean that it won't get better, it's just a brutal combination of circumstances at the moment, which has probably triggered all the gender feelings all over again, but it will pass, and things will be brighter.

Try writing to him, maybe - send him a letter that expresses how much you care for him and his dad; phone calls are often just the worst form of communication in times of stress.

Are you seeing your counsellor and psychologist again soon? fwiw, I'm a big bfing advocate, and I think if you genuinely feel that stopping would make your life easier, then you really shouldn't feel guilty. Your wee boy has had a cracking start - over twice as long as most babies whose mothers start breastfeeding - he'll be fine.

Thanks habbibu that is a really good idea I will write to him x