Piano prep test - ballpark timeframe?

[kate2mum]

My little dd is starting piano lessons at home, twice a week for half an hour. She is very excited and spellbound. For now. She is 4.4years. I wanted to start early as my lovely 10-year-old ds never really liked it, and then it turned out he has dyspraxia, which probably makes sight reading very challenging. And very disorganised. So he has dropped music. We are fine with this.

Little dd is highly organised... when she thinks I am rushing around trying to do 5 things at once, she stands in front of me with her fingers out and counts off things TO DO. It would be slightly irritating if I didn't delight in her beautifully organised little mind. Sigh.

The teacher, who is newly engaged, was non commital about time frames to be ready for the prep test, er one year, maybe two. Fully understand a lot depends on dd's musical aptitude, etc, but just wondering what others have experienced.

Dd1 did it in about 2.5 terms, it's not a pass/fail exam, she could have done it sooner, or later, really wouldn't have minded. Some teachers like them to be getting ready for grade 1, some prefer to do it early.

Wondering why you're giving her two lessons a week, and half an hour? It sounds quite a lot of pressure, even if she's enjoying it at present. Most teachers would start with 20 minutes once a week. She's also young to start, round here most teachers look for the child to be about age 6-7 and a competant reader, as that helps with reading music. Dd1 learnt to read music on the recorder first, which was very helpful.

Roughly, including prep test dd1 did roughly an exam a year, she's working for grade 4 now, but expects to take slightly longer between exams after this.

Ditto the comment about being too young. We wanted to start DS on the piano at at 5.5 but we were told that the finger span of children that age wasn't developed enough for piano. So we stated him on the violin and delayed taking on the piano until he was 9.

I have got the same kind of feedback from prospective teachers for my 5yo dd (bar the Suzuki teachers).
But there was one teacher who said she did not take view that 5 was too young on the basis of handspan (she said that they would start off playing keys that were very close together anyway) or not being able to read well yet.
Think enthusiasm for the piano and ability to concentrate for at least 20 mins should be enough for a child to benefit.

It is frustrating for teachers that parents can only think about the exam. I'd be a bit if a parent of a 4 year old asked such a question after a few lessons, or was it the first? Surely you want her to become a proficient pianist not an exam factory?

Yes why on earth does it matter how long until her first exam?

Whose idea was it for 2 lessons a week?

I would expect a child starting about the age of 7 or 8 to be ready for the preptest after maybe a year.

dd started with me when she was 6 but not seriously. She started properly 18 months ago and is doing Grade 1 this term, she skipped the prep test.

2 lessons a week for a 4 year old is a bit extreme. If she is eager then it is fine to begin but she should be playing fun games atthe piano using a child friendly book like 10 fingers. Not working towards the prep test which isn;t an exam anyway, you can;t fail it it just acts as an introduction to the idea of going in and playing to a stranger.

You would be better off enrolling her in a general group music appreciation class and this would help with the aural/musicianship skills you need in the grades as well.

The fact that dd did music aural club at school at lunchtimes has helped her a lot.

This is a joke yes??

Another Tiger Mum?

2x a week 30 min is too long for that age (I guess teacher won't come for 15 min)
We started at the age of 5.5 - 30 min/week

exams are more for the parents than the kids (IMHO) at that age
kids can skip exams and progress nicely

I think the most important thing is to involve child in various music making activities including choir and perhaps in time aa second instrument to round it up, esp. that there's no guarantee that you will be able to find second instrument whoch suits your child straight away

for us it was piano until age of 9 almost up to the grade 2, meanwhile a year of recorder , a year of flute, after which she begged for percussion lessons in year 3 and has been learning percussion instruments for the past 6 years continuously
piano was dropped and 6 months ago at her request reappeared and now she is doing grade 4 piano, grade 6 xylophone, grade 7 musical theatre singing. She taught herself ukulele last year too.

if the child is musical - it will happen ;)

Sorry can't offer any advice but just wanted to say don't be so hard on the OP. Yes it does sound like a lot but every child is different and maybe this setup is right for this particular child.

And of course there is a lot more to learning an instrument than just taking exams but they ARE important too.

Exams ARE NOT important when it comes to music.

I would disagree colleger. They are not the be all and end all but they are an indicator of progress and many schools ask for a certain grade for music scholarships and so on. You can be of Grade 5 'standard' for example but if a child hadn't done any exams at all the school would ask why.

I would certainly agree that exams are not important at this age though but I think the OP just wants to get an idea of timescales.

Colleger

I agree with you up to a point. Spending your life practising and perfecting three pieces for an exam does stifle a young child's growth (musically) but once the child has mastered the basics and is mature enough then that child needs a goal.

Mine did a grade a year but after Grade 3 we took a year out to increase their reportoire. They then did Grade 5 and 7 in two years and now we are in exam free mode again for at least another year.

Exams give children a sense of purpose, something to aim for and , yes, even something to brag about. I think it is healthy as long as the parent doesnt get the child to focus solely on passing exams as opposed to expanding their reportoire.

At 4.4 years old the child isn't even at school yet (presuming uk post).

Op - just wondering why the desire for two 30 min lessons?

If this is a real situation, then I'm intrigued to know more - I've never heard of so much tuition for a child so young before. I am a music teacher, so am genuinely interested, I'm not meaning to sound judgemental - each person has their own ideas.

I've no idea how long it would take a 4 yr old to reach Prep test level. It would depend so much on the child. Maybe 6 months, maybe 3 years.
I like my pupils to take grades 5 and 8 as bench marks, even if they take no others.

For my DCs, 5 would have been too young for the piano, but that said, my youngest would certainly have been sitting there pretending to play from about age 2.

Iif she is too young because she doesn't have the span, then she could become disheartened. But there must be a fair amount of material available that takes this into account - be guided by your teacher.

There is no race to take an exam - the prep test is a good start but it should be done at a time when it'll help give experience she can build on - if she's not going to do grade 1 til she's 7 or 8, I' d wait til the year before that tbh.

I don't agree with Colleger about the exams not being important at least in some circumstances. I know you have a DC at Chets, where maybe it doesn't matter, but my dd is at JD and it likewise doesn't matter there ('of the standard' being the relevant measure) and by the time you're doing uni applications ( for non conservatories) it does matter.

But Op, that hijacking your thread there and many years off!

gettingalifenow - do you mean applications for Music degrees?

Hi, thanks for your responses.

I am not a tiger mum. Just wanted to know what other people do.

I played the violin from 8 to 14 and was in a childrens' orchestra - was second and sometimes third violin. This didn't matter as I loved the whole orchestra thing. I knew I did not have the musical aptitude or attitude to be a first violin (kind of scraped through to be second actually!). So I understand that you do not have to be the best to enjoy music. So not looking for perfection from small DD.

The music teacher was not keen on twice a week until she had DD for a lesson and said it would work. I think DD was very attentive and able to take instruction and concentrate.

I thought twice a week was a good idea because (a) a week between 30 minute lessons seems like a very long time for a small child. (b) she would become competent quicker, without even realising it, and competence breeds confidence (c) DD was born in October and is now in her second year of part time nursery and will start school in September when she is 4.11years. I think she is a bit bored and, not being a tiger mum, and having a baby dd, she is not busybusybusy (d) she sometimes weeps with frustration when her brother, aged 10, does his homework, because she has no SPECIAL IMPORTANT WORK for her own (and I don't mean some silly thing that mummy made up for her because everyone knows that doesn't count) (e) seems thrilled.

As for exams, not being a teacher, or anywhere near the teaching profession, this is how I would know things are going okay (the teaching, not the thrilledness).

When DD starts school I might drop the lessons to once a week, as school is a big learning curve. Or if she really loves it, I don't know. But I promise no child will be hurt in the exercise of my rampant ego!

fair enough.

Know exactly what you mean by the "I have no important stuff to do".

I hope the teacher manages to keep it fun for her.

I agree with post that prep test good for just before grade 1.

If it gets too much, you can always put on home concerts for family and friends (my kids love doing these, sad I know!!) and listen to stuff like Peter And The Wolf. Go to cushion concerts etc and pick up the lessons later on. Older children make faster progression generally, so it all evens out later on. (usually).

Hope all goes well, sorry I didn't believe you at first - was shocked, but understand your thought process.

happyadvocado yes, sorry!, for music degrees! (you can see what's on our minds at the moment!)

My DD started lessons when she was 9 and did the pretest after 11 months.

She just does exams in every other grade now as it is such a faff to get to the exam centre.

Hijack here. Pushydad mine did grade 3 violin last summer and we have taken a break from exams (new teacher and teaching syle). Dd doing wider repertoire than what exams would require but she has not really been doing scales etc. I intend that she will take up exams again (she's still young) but does it become a bit difficult to be catching up with elements if you have skipped grades and not practised these bits?

I don't think there's much point in starting too young. Starting at 5 or 7 usually makes no difference to how they are at 8. All our children did (do) 2 or 3 instruments as we're quite a musical family. In the youngest 2 are doing music scholarship exams this month and it's fun too. I like it anyway as I get the chance now they are better to play the piano to lovely music every day (it's easier to accompany and enjoy when they get to grade 7) and to sing. Grades 6 - 8 exams by the way get additional university UCAS points.

I certainly wouldn't go into music lessons at this age thinking about when they should be doing exams; if a child is having fun that is great, but just beware of pushing them too hard and them feeling like they are failing. I am a piano teacher who normally recommends starting children in Year 2, for multiple reasons including that they don't progress as fast when they are younger and can be put off by their apparent lack of progress.

That said, I started teaching mine at four - but because they had both been begging for months first - they wanted to learn to play the piano like all the big children who came round, and thought it wasn't fair that I wouldn't teach them! Neither did their Prep Test tilll they were six, and they were both at least seven and half before they took Grade 1. Since then they have both progressed at about a Grade a year, they are not that far ahead of other children despite the early start. However, they are good at working out tunes for themselves, filching music they fancy playing off my shelves etc. - generally having fun with music. (They both learn a second instrument with another teacher).

I generally don't put children in for every Grade, but we do look at the scale requirements and work through the aural syllabus etc so that when they do want to take an exam they can go in at an appropriate level. My DS's are the only ones I enter for every grade, for my own reassurance, since as their mum I am aware I may be a bit biased about how they are playing!

Hi Maggie

We didn't give up on the scales. Instead we merely relegated it to a practice session once a week. We found that between grades 1 and 3, each exam requirement builds on the previous one so it maked sense to prepare for each one. But if your child is musical then going from 3 to 5 isn't a great leap. So, no it isn't difficult :)

Despit

... how did those typos manage to creep in?