Brownies question - not much faith in the leaders

[Alwaysworthchecking]

Dd recently gained a place in a Brownie pack and she and I were so pleased. She's been twice and loves it (mainly because her friends are there and dd is a very social animal) but I'm not impressed. The leaders seem disinterested and vague. You're lucky if they tell you where to pick up from and if they do tell you, it may be wrong. They give scant notice of extra activities the Brownies should be involved in, even when it is obvious they must have known for ages, and one of them can be a bit shouty, which just strikes me as totally unnecessary.

In contrast, the other Brownie pack, which meets next door to dd's and on the same night, seems really good. (Grass is always greener?) Where dd's seem to do a lot of colouring-in and faffing about indoors, next door's lot are always running around outside. Activities planned for dd's lot aren't always age appropriate either. ('Pamper Night' for Brownies, anyone? Even dd boycotted that and her best friend described it as, 'Boring!')

Dd is so pleased to be a Brownie that she's willing to go, regardless. Would you stick with it, or not?

Thanks, ButterflyEffect. That is a good point: if I get behind it and support them, everyone wins. I'll try that approach. (Unless a space comes up in the adjacent pack, in which case...) Thanks for the advice and support.

Could you get involved as a helper if you want to try and change things?

I used to be a Brownie Leader until DS was born and now expecting DD so can't give as much time as it needed. It is hard work, doing it on top of a day job, and we found it worked so much better with lots of adult leaders and helpers to share the burden - e.g. we would take it in turns to plan the week's activities, so we came to it fresh after a few week's not having to do it. We had 4 adult leaders and then a parental rota of at least one, sometimes two, per week and that really really helped keep things lively and interesting for the girls and also ensure we had time to do all the admin type stuff too.

The leaders are all volunteers, not paid, and are doing it on top of their daily lives - I think people often forget this - and a bit of extra help can make a huge difference to how well the pack can run. Often, there are no new leaders coming through, and sometimes an older leader who perhaps wants to leave or have a break feels like she needs to keep it going or the pack will close so is guilt-tripped into staying - and of course then won't feel quite as on top of things as a new enthusiastic volunteer and things can slide.

If there are specific things you don't like, like the communication (which does sounds quite crap!) then maybe you could get involved in helping with that rather than having to attend every week - e.g. offer to be the pack secretary who types up all the communications ready for them to be given out at the right time, or gather email addresses and be in charge of emailing things to parents.

As an active 'Little' Owl (second in command so to speak) I can also encourage you to get involved... [I started as a 'mum helper' as our pack was short of adults and here we are six years later - DD's moved on to Guides and beyond, but I'm still in Brownies and really enjoy it]...

But even if you don't get that committed help is always well received

Brownies (and Guiding througout) is supposed to be 'girl led' - so the girls should get some say in their activities, and some should be democratically chosen, so that all girls feel they have some input.

If you still feel that you're (or you DD isn't) not getting much out of being a Brownie, you could also approach your District Commissioner as she may be also be support your Guider(s) with fresh ideas etc... her details should be on the 'Joining Brownies' information that you've been given?

But unfortunately not all packs are the same aand some differ quite a lot!

Thanks again. Yes, I thought we'd try a few badges at home because I dd would love that.

Stricnine and meg, I'd love to get more involved, but have a busy academic year coming up and do not know what I'd do with ds while I was at Brownies. It is a good idea though and I appreciate your suggestions. I may well offer when this year and my college course is over (and when ds has had a year in school and is hopefully settled and more able to pace himself). I have already offered to come in as when needed and to bring in things for centenary year which I'm happy to talk about and share. Doubt these particular leaders will read that until centenary is over (ha-ha) but you never know.

You don't think they'll lose her at their sleepover, do you? I confess that is worrying me quite a lot!

Stick with it andhelp out if poss as others have said.
I used to run Rainbow group-tis hard work without parental help.
As she's only been twice I would give it some time before you pack it in.

LOL at the coat incident! No, I would rely on dd to remember her coat or not, as the case may be. Am not that over-protective!

Yes, I'm going to stick with it for a while at least and see how things pan out. I'll help as much as I can, which may not be much over this coming year, but I'll do what I can. I think my main concern is the attitude of the leaders. I know (from past experience in similar situations) how grindingly difficult it is to keep something going in the face of little support, but that notwithstanding, I still think they seem totally disinterested a bit detatched from the girls. I don't feel much trust in them and since I am sending dd to them overnight, I'm just not that happy about it.

Oh well - maybe I can help on the sleepover? Ds will not cope if I buggar off overnight, but I could help until bedtime, maybe? I'm CRB checked. I'll offer and see what they say (assuming they notice I'm offering - ha-ha!).

Sorry - this is not meant to dis all you hard-working Brownie leaders. You do have my respect! I leurve the idea of Brownies and am so, so pleased dd has a place. I'd just like to love this particular pack a bit more.

Hey-ho - I'm trying so hard to talk myself into going along with it all, but my gut feeling is virtually screaming out, 'Noooo! Walk away now!'

Hmmm...no. I think I was the kind of child who needed to feel the adults were in charge, before I could enjoy myself. (Sad, I know.) My first guide leader was a bit wet and I privately lamented the uphill struggle I faced to gain badges, but then she left and we got a very enthusiastic one and I loved it. My swimming teacher was terrifying and shouty, but never indifferent. My ballet teacher was rather prim and strict...but not indifferent.

Good point though - dd does enjoy the company of other children, but she would rather have more outdoor activities and fewer indoor ones involving colouring in. (I asked her.)

Another Brown Owl here. MegontheMoon said it all, really.

It is hard trying to devise a programme which suits all the girls - the sporty, the bookish, the arty, the extrovert, the shy, the very young 7 year olds and the proto-teenager 10 year olds - but we do our best to provide a balance over the course of the term. You seem to have been very quick to come to your rather disparaging views of your pack's leaders. Do encourage your daughter to make her preferences known and do go and help as much as you can - we often have parent helpers bringing younger siblings with them.

Oh, and in our pack the Pamper Night is one of our most popular theme nights. We are trying to encourage the girls to feel proud and positive about being girls, not turn them into Barbies.

Thanks, ASmallBunch. I can see that planning activities to suit all is very hard indeed and I do admire Brownie leaders for the work they do. I just don't admire these ones as much I'd like to and I feel sad about that. I agree also that I was rather quick to judge them, but I felt quite overwhelmed by the strength of my feeling there and I felt there were a number of incidents to support those feelings. Normally, I am not like that. I'm usually over-eager to like everyone and everything. Not only that but the 'Brownie-related anxiety' (I know, I know) has stayed with me for weeks and I really do feel very unhappy about sending dd back there.

Totally, totally agree about the need to help girls feel proud and positive about themselves. Dd went to a friends party the other day and it was a 'make-up party'. I have agonised over why this felt good and the idea of the Brownies Pamper Night did not. As yet, I haven't come up with an answer, but I am still giving it some serious thought. Maybe it was about knowing from the outset what the party was about, but the Brownie evening being about one thing for ages (swimming) and then suddenly another thing which just didn't feel like it was even nearly the same thing. Maybe because the party was geared to children and also featured a bouncy castle, whereas the Pamper Evening was aimed at the mums but used the Brownie's regular meeting slot and didn't provide anything else for them to do. Actually, that might be it!

I really, really want to move dd to another pack, but she really doesn't want that. I think (I'm still considering my options here) that I will stick with this pack, offer my help, but find some wildly exciting alternative activity for dd to do on the sleepover weekend, as the thought of sending her on that, as things stand now, makes me feel seriously uneasy. DD isn't great at sleepovers, is only just 7, and I just can't picture her being happy on it. I can't see how sobbing her heart out in a hall full of noisy girls will improve either her self-image or her social standing.

Now I sound like I've contradicted you at every turn but I'm actually very thankful for your advice. It feels good to think about this and to consider it from all angles!