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Brexit

Westministenders: BAH HUMBUG said Mr Rees-Mogg

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2018 23:27

"At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge Rees-Mogg, ... it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."

"Are there no prisons hostels?"

"Plenty of prisons hostels..."

"And the Union workhouses foodbanks." demanded Scrooge Jacob. "Are they still in operation?"

"Both very busy, sir..."

"Those who are badly off must go there."

"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."

"If they would rather die," said Scrooge ^Rees-Mogg, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

He continued "Besides I do not believe that anyone would die without them. I think Theresa is right, there are many complex reasons why nurses go to food banks. The real reason for the rise in numbers is that people know that they are there and Labour deliberately didn't tell them. To have charitable support given by people voluntarily to support their fellow citizens I think is rather uplifting and shows what a good, compassionate country we are"

------------------------

This thread is dedicated to Mrs8 and anyone else who is working to make life just a little better in the difficult circumstances that ALL politicians are currently doing their best to ignore (despite what they profess).

No Deal = even more poverty and destitution.

MERRY CHRISTMAS & HERES HOPING FOR A HAPPIER NEW YEAR
especially to those of you, who might be having a tough time or facing real uncertainity.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
borntobequiet · 22/12/2018 09:50

I often think of the similarities between our electoral system and the US. Yes there are major differences but essentially both systems consist of two opposing blocs with no formal means of realignment, despite there being a broad centre ground. In “good” times, when one party is in the ascendant, things get done (though sometimes not very good things, and often blighted by short termism ). In “bad times” things don’t get done at all, US government shutdowns and impasse such as we have now in the UK. Politicians, once elected, are blind to the deficiencies of the system and consider it an excellent system because it resulted in them being elected thanks to the clear sightedness and acumen of the voters. Consequently institutions are plagued by delays and inefficiencies, people’s needs ignored and the disadvantaged just get more and more so, because there is no real incentive for change. Having said all that, I don’t know where we go from here, except towards revolution. (I expect this is what JC is hoping for except for one thing - he’s as much a prisoner of the system as anyone else!)

lonelyplanetmum · 22/12/2018 10:01

Did anyone ever answer the question about which international organisations they would be happy to leave, out of the long list that was posted?

No I have never got an answer to that question. The closest I got to an answer was my friend's Leave drum banging Mum who leads a group of her like minded friends.

She said from the list- she wants out of the EU, UN and NATO. As far as other things like the G7 , IMF, Artic council etc she refused to answer.

I just want a knowledgable Leaver, ideally any Leave politician to spend 15 minutes going through the list and annotating it with a Yes or No to each - but no- one will.

I just want to know what's next. Logically it can't simply stop with relinquishing EU membership ?

Moussemoose · 22/12/2018 10:11

borntobequiet traditionally the US political system was regraded as less partisan. The centre ground was more likely to work together to compromise. People would often vote differently for Congress than locally or for the President.

In the last twenty years we have seen the rise of partisanship and an unwillingness to work together much more similar to the U.K.

The U.K. system works with a majority of 327, the US system is much more balanced so when parties control different branches of government the whole system cease to work.

Constitutional change is needed in both countries but the general public are just not interested. They won't vote for it, they are bored by it, they ignore it.

And now we have major issues brought about to an extent by constitutional problems and everyone is surprised apart from constitutional nerds who have been banging on about the issues for years.

lonelyplanetmum · 22/12/2018 10:15

*Howabout

Don't want to derail but here's the list. I want to have a plan and know which we like and which we don't.

Previous post

" It's interesting actually. We are (or were)very involved internationally I bet Raab is surprised by this.

I also wonder which ones Jacob Rees Mogg wishes to retain and which he wishes to relinquish.

I wonder if We should have had a full vote on all international cooperation that his group doesn't like really.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a member of:
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Development_Bank" target="_blank">African Development Bank (nonregional member)
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Union/United_Nations_Hybrid_Operation_in_Darfur" target="_blank">African Union/United Nations Hybrid Operation in Darfur (UNAMID)
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Council" target="_blank">Arctic Council
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Development_Bank" target="_blank">Asian Development Bank (nonregional member)
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_Group" target="_blank">Australia Group
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_for_International_Settlements" target="_blank">Bank for International Settlements
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British-Irish_Council" target="_blank">British-Irish Council
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Development_Bank" target="_blank">Caribbean Development Bank (non-regional member)
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations" target="_blank">Commonwealth of Nations
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation_of_European_Paper_Industries" target="_blank">Confederation of European Paper Industries
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_the_Baltic_Sea_States" target="_blank">Council of the Baltic Sea States
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro-Atlantic_Partnership_Council" target="_blank">Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Bank_for_Reconstruction_and_Development" target="_blank">European Bank for Reconstruction and Development
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Investment_Bank" target="_blank">European Investment Bank
▪ European Organization for the Exploitation of Meteorological Satellites
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Organization_for_Nuclear_Research" target="_blank">European Organization for Nuclear Research
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency" target="_blank">European Space Agency
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_Agriculture_Organization" target="_blank">Food and Agriculture Organization
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Conference_on_Weights_and_Measures" target="_blank">General Conference on Weights and Measures
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Five" target="_blank">Group of Five
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▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Ten
(economic)" target="_blank">Group of Ten
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Twenty_Finance_Ministers_and_Central_Bank_Governors" target="_blank">Group of Twenty Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-American_Development_Bank" target="_blank">Inter-American Development Bank
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Energy_Agency" target="_blank">International Atomic Energy Agency
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bank_for_Reconstruction_and_Development" target="_blank">International Bank for Reconstruction and Development
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Chamber_of_Commerce" target="_blank">International Chamber of Commerce
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Civil_Aviation_Organization" target="_blank">International Civil Aviation Organization
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Confederation_of_Free_Trade_Unions" target="_blank">International Confederation of Free Trade Unions
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court" target="_blank">International Criminal Court
International Criminal Police Organization – INTERPOL
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Development_Association" target="_blank">International Development Association
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Energy_Agency" target="_blank">International Energy Agency
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Societies" target="_blank">International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Finance_Corporation" target="_blank">International Finance Corporation
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fund_for_Agricultural_Development" target="_blank">International Fund for Agricultural Development
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Hydrographic_Organization" target="_blank">International Hydrographic Organization
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Labour_Organization" target="_blank">International Labour Organization
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Maritime_Organization" target="_blank">International Maritime Organization
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Satellite_Organization" target="_blank">International Mobile Satellite Organization
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund" target="_blank">International Monetary Fund
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympic_Committee" target="_blank">International Olympic Committee
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Migration" target="_blank">International Organization for Migration
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Standardization" target="_blank">International Organization for Standardization
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Movement" target="_blank">International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Telecommunication_Union" target="_blank">International Telecommunication Union
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Telecommunications_Satellite_Organization" target="_blank">International Telecommunications Satellite Organization
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Trade_Union_Confederation" target="_blank">International Trade Union Confederation
▪ <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Whaling_Commission" target="_blank">International Whaling Commission

▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Parliamentary_Union%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Parliamentary_Union"</a> target="_blank">Inter-Parliamentary Union</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateral_Investment_Guarantee_Agency%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateral_Investment_Guarantee_Agency"</a> target="_blank">Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement"</a> target="_blank">Non-Aligned Movement</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Energy_Agency%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Energy_Agency"</a> target="_blank">Nuclear Energy Agency</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Suppliers_Group%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Suppliers_Group"</a> target="_blank">Nuclear Suppliers Group</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_Economic_Co-operation_and_Development%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_Economic_Co-operation_and_Development"</a> target="_blank">Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_the_Prohibition_of_Chemical_Weapons%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_the_Prohibition_of_Chemical_Weapons"</a> target="_blank">Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_American_States%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_American_States"</a> target="_blank">Organization of American States</a> (OAS) (observer)
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Islands_Forum%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Islands_Forum"</a> target="_blank">Pacific Islands Forum</a>  (partner)
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Club%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Club"</a> target="_blank">Paris Club</a>
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration"</a> target="_blank">Permanent Court of Arbitration</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_of_the_Pacific_Community%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_of_the_Pacific_Community"</a> target="_blank">Secretariat of the Pacific Community</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_European_Cooperative_Initiative%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_European_Cooperative_Initiative"</a> target="_blank">Southeast European Cooperative Initiative</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Conference_on_Trade_and_Development%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Conference_on_Trade_and_Development"</a> target="_blank">United Nations Conference on Trade and Development</a> (UNCTAD)
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▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_Commission_for_Latin_America_and_the_Caribbean%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_Commission_for_Latin_America_and_the_Caribbean"</a> target="_blank">United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean</a> 
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNESCO%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNESCO"</a> target="_blank">United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization</a> (UNESCO)
▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_High_Commissioner_for_Refugees%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_High_Commissioner_for_Refugees"</a> target="_blank">United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees</a> 
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▪	<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=<a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Administration_Mission_in_Kosovo%22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Administration_Mission_in_Kosovo"</a> target="_blank">United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo</a> 
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1tisILeClerc · 22/12/2018 10:21

Lonelyplanetmum
On the basis that apart from being 'out of the EU' which is still pretty undefined I don't think you will get an answer.
It may be instructional to find out which associations the UK will fall out of when it gets it's new status as a 'third country' on March 30th.
I don't know what the 'qualifications' for being in the G7 are but unless UK productivity really takes off (through some as yet undefined activity apart from willpower) it may drop out of the rankings.
I forget the details but in terms of 'assets' that belong to the UK, it ranks somewhere similar to Ghana. All the 'red tape' that the UK companies are taking on by leaving the EU just reduces their efficiency/profits by another percentage point or two, that's before you get into the tariff situation. Government guidelines yesterday saying that extra shipping handlers/tax/regulation staff will be needed by all businesses. Even just new software (currently unavailable) will be needed as a bare minimum. Is there a supply of trained shipping agents available? It will certainly eat into any business profits.

howabout · 22/12/2018 10:24

In answer to the question then, the only things the UK would be withdrawing from would be organisations intrinsically linked to EU membership. eg EIB

lonelyplanetmum · 22/12/2018 10:24

But surely on the " fail to plan, plan to fail" basis we should have a longer term plan too.

There should be a policy on which of the list of international organisations we want to stick with. Politicians should form a view on each and everyone.

The EU was clearly number 1 on this but what about the others?

lonelyplanetmum · 22/12/2018 10:25

Yes howabout but what I want to know is what is the next target.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 22/12/2018 10:36

www.google.co.uk/search?q=elasticated+bed+valance&tbm=isch&client=safari&prmd=simvn&hl=en-GB&ved=2ahUKEwiAxtaTmrPfAhWH0-AKHWQeAhgQrNwCegUIARC8AQ&biw=375&bih=553#imgrc=evx32O03cs6T3M

Talking of trends in bed linen, does anyone still use a bed valance? My DM still has them and believes that a bed looks ‘vulgar’ without them.
I remember nylon sheets- looking under the covers (blankets) and actually seeing sparks- probably from the friction between the sheets and my wincyette nightie.
Mrs8 You’re awesome.
I am not seeing my family on Christmas Day (long story) so am volunteering at Crisis at Christmas on Xmas day and Boxing Day.
I’m in inner London so the demand is huge and, according to the organisers, has been growing year on year since 2010.
I remember coming up to London to go to the theatre in the 80s and being shocked at the number of rough sleepers.
They virtually disappeared during the Labour government but are back with a vengeance now and I’m noticing a lot more women and young people. I quite often chat to them and it’s clear that a lot of them have mental health problems and/or issues with addiction ie the kind of person that not many people care about.
I will look for the link but there was a news item last week about the huge increase in deaths among homeless people.
Yet another scandal that is being buried due to the amount of time and money spent on Brexit Sad

howabout · 22/12/2018 10:36

None of the others have ambitions to supersede the Nation State lonely. That is the key difference.

lonelyplanetmum · 22/12/2018 10:40

Play the game Howabout. How does making agreed joint food, agriculture, plus minimum human and workers' rights constitute a plan to supersede the nation state?

howabout · 22/12/2018 10:44

All right I'll bite. Are we negotiating our departure with 27 Nation States or the EU?

lonelyplanetmum · 22/12/2018 10:47

Also it appears we are happy to remain members of all other the 100? non EU international organisations listed. Surely there needs to be an exercise to evaluate the collective extent to which the shared rules of those many organisations affect our complete unilateral decision making too?

lonelyplanetmum · 22/12/2018 10:48

I'm not biting back until you answer my question Howabout.

howabout · 22/12/2018 10:54

Don't see why any such exercise would be necessary given none of the others have replacement governmental structures with parallel representation. The UK is in the weird position where UKIP has significant representation in the EU Parliament but none in the UK for instance.

1tisILeClerc · 22/12/2018 11:09

PCPlumsTruncheon
Thank you. Your moral compass is obviously way better aligned than so many in government.
I hope you (and others doing similar caring deeds) have a fulfilling Christmas.

mybrainhurtsalot · 22/12/2018 11:15

Going back a page or two to the discussion about people going along with the crowd and the fact we are missing a positive message for remain. I caught a bit of a programme on R4 a week or so back and it was arguing along the same lines. It said something like politics is about storytelling and there needs to be a politician who can bring us a new story to bring people together. The old story was that the generation to come will always do better, but that is no longer true, so what will replace it? I think it may have been the first episode of this series: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001d9z/episodes/player

Ta1kinpeace · 22/12/2018 11:30

Remain politicians need to do what the remain campaign singularly FAILED to do suring the campaign ...

FOCUS ON NON LONDON ISSUES

  • rural transport
  • integrated public transport
  • funding for schools
  • funding for hospitals
  • funding for care homes
  • closing tax loopholes
the stuff that made people vote leave

Corbyn won't do it
the ERG won't do it
but somebody has to
or Britain stays broken

PCPlumsTruncheon · 22/12/2018 11:44

Mousse I totally agree that our electoral system is broken. It worked well enough when the choice was basically between 2 parties but that isn’t the case anymore.
I have always lived in safe seats so, whilst I’ve always voted and always will, it has always felt like a waste of time TBH.
In the 2015 GE, the SMP got 4.7% of the vote and 56 seats while UKIP polled 12.6% and got 1 seat. The LDs and Greens have the same problem.
Much as I’m glad that there aren’t more UKIP MPs, the system is deeply unfair to them and I think they have a right to feel aggrieved about it.
Voting in the Referendum did feel different somehow because my vote did actually count.
It’s not going to change anytime soon as any government will have been elected by FPTP and will therefore not have any appetite for changing to a ‘fairer’ system

howabout · 22/12/2018 12:03

Talk this is the complete opposite of what GO recommended in his interview today. His recipe is still social liberalism and fiscal conservatism and focusing on Metropolitan areas.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46655969

I don't disagree with him that if TM had wanted soft Remain this is where she should have started with her pitch. However I'm not convinced it would have prompted a different, less hard line reaction from the EU as he suggests. I do wonder if this approach would have led to a more united UK though, whether that was in accepting our lot within the EU or in solidifying around proper Brexit.

TM saying one thing while doing another is what has been so corrosive over the last 2 years. However DC and TB were equally guilty of this. At least we knew where we were with Mrs T - and so did Europe.

ElenadeClermont · 22/12/2018 12:05

The trouble with Frankie Boyle that some of his lines stay with me for a long time like his take on Thatcher's funeral. Here is another one:
Surely better terms of withdrawal have been negotiated during prison sex.
He seems very sad though like all of us.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/22/frankie-boyle-review-2018-forget-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Ta1kinpeace · 22/12/2018 12:10

Howabout
George Osborne is a multi millionare selfish twat.
His ideological obsession with Austerity was a driver for the result.
His being in the pockets of the super rich has allowed tax loopholes that make every country poorer.
His caving in to kleptocrats has wrecked the UK property market.

He should bugger off to a shed somewhere and write his memoirs.

howabout · 22/12/2018 12:14

Don't disagree with any of what you say Talk . If Remain / 2nd Ref / pro EU ever wants to gain traction it really needs to work out how to disassociate itself from GO, TB and Alistair Campbell.

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2018 12:35

With Mattis gone in the US, I am expected the US to leave NATO mid Feb to early March.

It will be before Brexit to make a point.

OP posts:
Ta1kinpeace · 22/12/2018 12:51

I am expected the US to leave NATO mid Feb to early March
I'm not
Because as of the new session, Trump does not have control of both houses and he cannot do that by edict.
It HAS to go through both houses and the old style GOP folks will stand up to him on that one.

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