Can someone explain the current backstop position

[Bearbehind]

Because I'm confused!

I thought that TM originally proposed a backstop of NI remaining in CU/SM, the the DUP immediately vetoed that so we reverted to saying the whole of the UK would remain aligned with SM /CU wrt issues affecting the border.

Barnier said in his speech they never wanted to create a border in the North Sea either.

So WTF is TM on about now saying the EU need to 'evolve' on the backstop?

This has been agreed already.

What am I missing here?

www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/07/19/theresa-mays-brexit-speech-tomorrow-may-break-the-northern-ireland-peace-process/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4a966b517f8a

There now is no backstop. Rees Mogg outlawed it a couple of days ago. May has basically cast up her hands and said the EU can sort it out. Fuck knows what happens now.

I still don't get it.

That article even says May is set to denounce the “backstop” her government negotiated with the European Union as part of the Brexit agreement.

She's agreed this already.

The article goes on to talk about treating no NI differently is what nacceptable but the agreement wasn't to treat NI differently.

How can JRM outlaw something that's already agreed?

The EU have got no fecking hope of reaching an agreement if we just keep going back on what we've already agreed.

Can't see it's going to make us very popular with negiotiations on all those FTAs we're looking to make if we can't be seen to be good fir our word.

When the hell are you going to understand the fundamental
point. The EU have absolutely NO fucking intention of coming to any kind of agreement of any kind. They will kill off all hope of a deal of any kind before the ink has even dried.
They want the UK to crash out, they are hoping for the biggest car crash even if they burnt and scalded too.
They will do anything and go to any length to preserve the status quo, which is exactly why we are leaving in the first place.

I am amazed that you can not know this. Backstops and deals and all the rest, it is wind and piss unless the EU leaders take control and quickly get behind the wheel. We are heading for a very hard brexit because the EU have decided this is the only way they can save the project.

Stop talking generic nonsense and try and answer my question nearlyfifty

I'm not interested in Leaver rhetoric.

I don’t know how many different ways I need to spell it out. There is no backstop

May has gone back on her written agreement to the original backstop.

You are telling me you are confused, you can say that again.

There is no backstop.

May has gone back on her written agreement to the original backstop.

This is it. I don't understand how Rees Mogg has been able to 'outlaw' it though.

nearly please go away if you've nothing sensible to contribute.

There is a backstop.

We agreed it.

Now we've moved the goal posts.

Not the EU, we've moved them.

the EU have decided this is the only way they can save the project

Good for them if they are doing what they need to for the other EU members. I've mentioned before that we are leaving the UK this summer so I'm not emotionally involved, just curious how it's going to pan out.

My pension will be here for at least 20 years and I hope the UK is back on track by then so it's actually worth something 🙄

I'm trying to understand what May is doing as shesedms to be saying something totally different to what she said in December.
OP there's a wealth of information on the Westminenders threads by Red Toothbrush, I'm going to read the latest one now to see if they help me to understand the latest Brexit skulduggery

Sorry should be * she seems to

I read the WM threads too but I'm still not clear what's going on.

She agreed the backstop in December. The ERG aka Jacob et al have figured out what it means and kicked off. So she is backtracking and blaming the EU.

Backstop was agreed to keep UK in SM and CU if no other agreement was reached. But parliament voted against this during the week. So now there is an agreed - between the UK and EU - backstop that is illegal according to what was passed in parliament. That's how I understand it anyhow.

That's not my understanding apile hence my confusion 😂

I thought the vote which was lost the week was to make insist we got to vote to in the SM / CU permanently if we had no other agreement by mid-January next year.

I didn't think it overruled the already agreed backstop

This article explains it a bit better. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404

[http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/20/week-in-review-total-brexit-madness]]This gives an overview of the weeks madness.]] The backstop being rendered illegal is covered thus:

"There were no technical evasions available to the Ireland amendment, however. This made it unlawful to pursue a policy which would create a separate customs territory between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, even though this is precisely what the withdrawal agreement with the EU will do. Now this will presumably have to be repealed before any agreement can be signed. Rarely before have governments passed laws they intend to repeal before they have even reached the statute book."

I think the JRM amendment to the chequers agreement was on VAT which made it illegal for NI to have a different VAT system to the rest of the UK. That amendment narrowly passed.

As a result the Remainer ‘Rebels’ tabled something to say that the UK would stay in CU if no agreement made by Jan 2019, this didn’t pass.

So the backstop that TM originally agreed with EU to keep NI in CU and SM in December is now invalid due to the JRM amendment that passed on NI not being different to rest of UK on VAT.

I don’t think that’s entirely right but something along those lines. Certainly not the EU punishing us.

This gives an overview of the weeks madness. Clicky link.

Thanks for the updates.

I still don't understand why we are reneaging on what we've already agreed when there's so much more still to be agreed.

It makes a complete mockery of the whole process.

I don't understand it either, but the amendments put forward by Rees-Mogg aren't law yet. They have to go to the Lords, who may or may not amend them again. Theresa May does have form for saying one thing to a UK audience and another to the rest of the world.

It's really irritating me!

I try and keep up with developments re Brexit but this has me stumped.