Can anyone advise on reciprocal healthcare (EHIC) etc post Brexit ?

[Monapaloma]

Does anybody understand/ know/ want to take a wild guess about how things like EHIC would work post Brexit, and when would the new situation come into play?

Could I give this example...
A father is employed by a uk company but works and lives in Germany with wife and kids. They all have German government health insurance. Remember they live in Germany, so if they have an EHIC it's a German issued one, (because as I understand our EHIC is no longer valid when no longer resident in Uk). So then post Brexit, may the family have to take out a private Italian insurance at a
Much higher cost? How will it all work?

Ignore the Italian part. I mean German!

I would think there would be various options

1. We agree with Europe to keep the reciprocal arrangements
2. We stop the arrangement for 'tourists' but people with residency can still use the health service for that country 3a) We stop the arrangement but the company pays for private health insurance for ex pat workers as a 'benefit' 3b) We stop the arrangement and you have to sort yourself out

Good grief we have no idea about anything yet

@Confused
Indeed, we haven't even decided who the driver will be when this bus hits the concrete wall. It won't really matter who it is unless one slams the brakes on VERY hard.

Thanks @TeenTimesTwo
do you think Europe would agree to keeping the reciprocal agreements?
I mean in Germany and Spain for example (not sure about other places) there are hospitals that will ask for a balance to be reserved on a credit card before treating a patient. Private insurance can be so very pricey.

If they live in Germany it will continue as per any German resident. Or do you mean to access NHS.

But (not sure about other systems)
A uk resident in Germany doesn't have the same rights as a German in terms of accessing state insurance.
There are stipulations, eg regarding ni contributions prior to the move etc. There is quite a big gap between the cost of state/ private healthcare.

So they need expat insurance, just as now.

Or @LIZS do you mean post Brexit you think a British person with residency status in Germany would have all of the same rights as a real German?

@LIZS what do you mean by expat insurance? Currently dependants can apply for state German cover through the form s1e109. So the cost for insurance is minimal compared to private. But by expat do you mean private? I hope I don't sound rude, genuine question , just hard to convey tone when talking Brexit practicalities !

So in the example I mean a uk taxpayer with residency in Germany

They might need some type of residency permit and assume responsibilities such health insurance, 3rd party liability etc which are already required in some EEA countries. We needed similar when living in Switzerland.

And their family.

Reciprocal taxation agreements may change over time. They should initially pay local taxes on overseas income.

Thanks @LIZS it really is a minefield.

Hi Mona, I'm a long-term German resident and I'm not really sure what you're asking. Doyou currently all have gesetzliche Versicherung via the main employee! If you do there is absolutely no difference between your insurance and that of any other German employee. It's always advisable to get additional insurance for traveling abroad because the German agency won't necessarily refund you the full amount you paid in the other European country. So we have a private family Reiseversicherung via the ADAC which Costs 20 euros a year and is valid all over the world, whether in the EU or not. If the country is in the EU you apply to your German insurance for a partial refund and the private insurance covers the rest. Outside the EU and the private insurance covers everything. The only thing Brexit will change is that you no longer use your health card (EHIC card) for the refund but the private insurance instead.
If you're not ADAC members plenty of insurance companies do cheap travel packages for about 10 euros pppy.

Thanks @mentounasc that’s helpful about the Adac. Ok so the gesetzliche kranken versicherung is totally not related to reciprocal agreements between the uk and Germany. Because I was refused access to it a long time ago when applying as an individual, as I’d been a sahm in the uk prior to my move, and they cited my low ni contributions as the reason.

I was self employed

So how are you insured then in Germany? You said in your OP that the family has German government health insurance. Are you with the AOK?

Are you married? Because that's what allows you to partake in your husband 's insurance under the Fsmilienversicherung scheme. As long as your DH stays employed in Germany after Brexit nothing will change about your insurance - like I said the only difference will be that when visiting the UK you'll need a cheap Reiseversicherung.

Either there will be a reciprocal agreement as there us with many no eu countries at the moment or there won't in which case they can get German health insurance or expat insurance or they can try to negotiate health insurance as a benefit with employer.

It’s hypothetical @mentounasc
I don’t live in Germany currently .... I’m just weighing up some future options
Say everyone is insured through the aok. Do you think that cover would still be valid post brexit? Sorry to be vague. I’ve lived in a few countries in the Eu, and as access to many state policies were dependent on previous uk ni/tax contributions/reciprocal agreements, (aok included)I’m wondering if we’ll all be forced into private insurance policies. And indeed, will the family budget for healthcare need to be much much bigger to accommodate this, in Germany or anywhere else in the Eu.

Ah, you don't live there right now, you just want to know for the future! Now it's clearer.

Anyone who is employed in Germany has to be insured in Germany and the employer has to contribute. This can be the AOK or indeed any other gesetzliche Versicherung (it's up to you which you choose). But the simple fact that you're employed means the agency has to accept you. It's irrelevant whether you're from an EU country or not - the conditions will be the same. And if that employee is married and the spouse earns less than about 400 euros per month the spouse is entitled to be insured with the main person, and kids are included up to 25 as long as they're in full-time education. All of this has nothing to do with reciprocal agreements and everything to do with the fact that someone in the family is an employee. Things do get more complicated if you're a SAHP who's not married to the main earner though. None of this will change after Brexit.

If there is no deal there will be no reciprocal healthcare. I still think that no brexit is more likely than no deal but I wouldn't stake my healthcare on it.

Cross-border UK-continental Europe workers are among the most at risk from this mess. They are not numerous so I don't know that anyone has thought much about this. You should contact the group British in Europe on Facebook.

If i were in the shoes of this person - I assume he has a permanent employment contract in the UK and German residency? does he pay German social contributions? - I would want a German contract by March 29th. If it's a big company it may be possible (I work for the French subsidiary of a FTSE100 company but report to a boss in the UK) or alternatively some people set in their own companies in their European host nation and continue to work for their UK employer as a freelancer. The latter is obviously less satisfactory from the job security point of view.

@Mentounasc and @Mistigri thank you for the replies. German contract is what I was thinking too.