Are DWP tricking care home residents out of their attendance allowance?

[DinahCat]

So as I understand it, as a self-funder in a nursing home, Mum will be entitled to have her Attendance Allowance re-instated after her hospital stay. The DWP website says re care homes when you move into one you have to tell them your address, date of moving in and "how your care is paid for". Carehome.co.uk says if you are self funding, even with FNC, you are still entitled to receive it. (Mum is not currently receiving FNC though she may be eligible once the assessment is carried out)

We notified DWP when she was admitted to hospital and AA was stopped for a few weeks, and they have sent a form to send once she is discharged. BUT the form only offers the option of going back home or to a care home "by which we mean a home...where the costs of your stay are partly or fully met from public or local funds".

Which is not the only sort of care home stay as we all know fine well.

The form then just asks for the address of the care home, and NOWHERE DOES IT ASK IF YOU ARE SELF FUNDING OR NOT. If you name the care home "you don't have to answer any more questions". Presumably thereby tacitly accepting thier definition of 'care home' even if as in Mum's case, it doesn't apply.

Well DWP, I have a question for you. If I, all unknowing, fill in this form where there is nowhere for me to state I am self funding, will you stop my attendance allowance unjustly, because your form DELIBERATELY OMITTED THE OPTION FOR ME TO DESCRIBE THE WAY IN WHICH MY CARE IS FUNDED. SO YOU CAN IGNORE THE FACT THAT I AM, IN FACT, STILL ENTITLED TO RECEIVE ATTENDANCE ALLOWANCE?

And how many people have fallen into this trap???

Or am I going mad?

So: unless someone points out that I have this all wrong, (with references please!) I'm not going to fill in this form. I'm going to ring their helpline and hold their bloody feet to the fire.

Jesus, the torture just never ends does it 😫

What country is your relative in?

Phone them and ask for clarification

I suppose its possible that they will just write to the care home for confirmation of residence and at the same time, ascertain how the stay is funded. But I am not going to fill it in because it implies tacit acceptance of their wrong definition of the way Mum's care is funded. I may be "getting myself worked up" but the fact remains that the form plus letter specifically excludes the reality of my Mum's (and tens of thousands of other elderly people's) actual situation. And so how can I fill it in?

I must say I am minded to ask for clarification for everyone, not just us. Which I believe would require them them to re-draft the letter and form.

It's not a trick, it's just that they are a bit crap.

Given a choice between the conspiracy theory and the incompetence theory, it's nearly always the incompetence theory.

Fair enough @DwarfPalmetto but my God it grinds my gears (as you may have noticed...)

The funded nursing contribution (FNC) isn't funding your stay, its funding your free at the point of access NHS care that you receive whilst there.

If you were at home the equivalent to FNC would be care provided by the district nursing team - having District Nursing support at home wouldn't exclude you from claiming attendance allowance for your home care and ditto having onsite nursing care in 24 hour care doesn't either. The nursing element is funded by the NHS and the care part is funded by the LA or self funded and it's the Care part rather than the nursing part that counts for AA.

If you didn't have nursing needs then FNC/district nursing wouldn't be required and if self funding a stay in a care home then Attendance Allowance is still claimable to pay towards that, if not self funding then the state is already funding so the AA is moot.

DWP aren't trying to trick anyone, and most nursing homes, Age UK and adult social care will all advise anyone who is unclear whether they should continue to claim AA or not.

It's all going to get even more complicated if Burnham's plans go through and the care and accommodation costs are also split (although I'm not necessarily against that)

You can just ring them up & tell them when she comes out of hospital. It took me a few days to tell them about DM because we were busy sorting things out at home but they didn’t need anything from the hospital she was discharged from despite it saying online that they did. I agree with pp - always assume incompetence abs defo claim it x

Isn’t it also the case that her state pension will be put towards the cost of care, and that’s paid out of the public purse?

AgeUK are very helpful. Get in touch with them.
The thing that infuriates me most about self funding is that the self funders are paying for the state funded residents too. They pay around 50% more per month than the the home receives from the state for exactly the same care.

I think they don’t expect people who are self funding to be in this loop in the first place. We didn’t even inform them I don’t think we we have paid every single penny ourselves and knew she was still entitled to her AA continuing. So we didn’t need to complete the form. Does that make sense ?

I’m not entirely sure what the issue is. I filled out the form for my Uncle, he’s entirely self-funded in his care home, and he receives full Attendance Allowance. It was a very straightforward process and came through in about 6 weeks. I can’t remember the exact boxes I ticked on the form, but I did the whole thing in about 1.5hrs and sent it off, no problem.

could you start from scratch again?

The issue is because she was already in receipt of AA, but was living at home. She can't go back there though, for many reasons she now needs nursing care above what would be (reliably) possible in the community so this is the form to tell dwp she has left hospital. And it simply does not include the option to state she is self funding. Which is what made me so suspicious.

And yes @endofthelinefinally its maddening isn't it? I suppose I can take some consolation from the fact that her particular home doesn't take LA funding without a topup, which suggests perhaps there is more resource overall per resident vs the amount mum is paying. Which is indeed eyewatering.

@DinahCat I’ve worked as a care home manager for many years and have often filled out a form confirming how people are funded for AA and they continue to get AA.

@DinahCat I think you need to talk to the DWP. If the care home fees are fully self funded, the AA just restarts automatically from her hospital discharge date.

I don’t know why the forms are so crap. Did you get sent that form automatically?

actually, FNC count as an extra payment, doesn’t it? So even if there’s no box on the form to tick “ self funded “ when it asks if you are partly paid for by NHS or local authority, you say no. Because they’re not covering the fees.

It is ridiculously unclear I agree. It’s probably changed since I last saw it.

I tend to phone the DWP because I’m not waiting for post and people to process forms.

When my stepfather moved from hospital to a care home I phoned the DWP (or whoever managed AA) and told them about his discharge and that he was a self funded. They reinstated the AA from the date of discharge.

AA is not means tested - so that surely means the DWP don’t need to know of her funding arrangements (or have I misunderstood something here)

I think, if the state are paying for your care, then you lose attendance allowance. That’s for full state funding, I don’t know what happens about partial.

Doesn’t apply to OP anyway as FNC is separate.

It would be best to give them a quick ring to clarify.

I think the home would be on it one way or another. They automatically get the state pension. I do find that Age UK are very well informed and can answer pretty much all questions.
My friend's late husband was in a local care home and he was paying around £1700 a week. The only reason he didn't have to sell his house is because she is still in it. My friend asked how much the same package cost the LA (taxpayers) and it was £500 per week. Apparently they get a discount for "block booking", but the home has to have a majority of self funders to make up the amount. It is a difficult situation. Local government can't afford any more, but it is punishingly expensive for the self funders.

According to google, self funders are expected to use their state pension and attendance allowance to contribute to their fees.
State funded residents are expected to contribute their state pension and are not entitled to claim attendance allowance. There are slightly different rules around AA for nursing homes that appear long and complicated. Too long to post here.

https://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance