My elderly Uncle’s hoarding and OCD behaviour

[Lovingson]

Hi, I’m in a terrible quandary and need advice (even though I’ve a pretty good idea what I need to do). I have a very elderly Uncle who up until recently I thought was just an eccentric loner. Over the past few years the state of his house has deteriorated and the amount of clutter has increased. He seems to be fully compos mentos though he has showed increased signs of extreme OCD . On my last recent visit it became clear that his grasp on the reality of his personal well being vs his obsessive behaviour is way off normal. By chance ( I am not normally allowed to be in any other part of his house when I visit) I had to urgently go to the loo. This clearly threw him but it was a question of me not being able to avoid going to the loo. What I discovered shocked me to the core. The toilet was not functioning properly and clearly hadn’t done for some time. Getting up and down the stairs was a nightmare due to all the stuff on the stairs. On the way back to the living room I &saw his kitchen which was in a right state. We had a discussion about the state of his living conditions which was just met with excuses like I’m just getting round to it once I’ve done this and that. He refused my offers of help to sort out his cooking and toilet facilities and then help him de-clutter. His response clearly left me under no illusion he is labouring under some fantasy reallity. I dearly want to help him but the task is clearly beyond the scope of my ability. I know I need to involve Adult Social Services but am worried how he will react towards me. He will hate me. Anyone got any similar experience or advice

Hi. I have worked as a cleaner for a lady who lived in squalid conditions. She was 80 and very intelligent, but couldn’t see that she was living in a hording situation , filthy and unsanitary flat.
I helped her for 3 years. Her daughter who lived hundreds of miles away used to come twice a year and clean for 3 days for her.
In the end I called social services advice was giving up my cleaning job and was worried about how she would cope.
I told her why I’d phoned them and said she needed more help than I could provide.
Good luck op!

I had this exact situation with my Uncle but the difference was that nobody had been in his house for 50 years. What happened was that he fell at home and ended up in hospital. The neighbours called the ambulance as we couldn’t get him on the phone. No idea how long he had been on the floor, but he was in hospital for two weeks. I had to quickly find him a care home for respite, which then became permanent for him.

i had to get a locksmith to break into his house to collect clothes for him and it shocked me to the core.

To cut a long story short, I managed to get a solicitor to help him sign power of attorney to me for finance and health and welfare. Without that in place, it would have been incredibly difficult to do anything for him. I then had to clear and sell his house and car to pay for the care home fees. I got the POA in place in the nick of time while he still had capacity- he was subsequently diagnosed with dementia. He’s now a very happy resident of the care home - and of course it’s a vast improvement on his previous living conditions. I think he’s neurodivergent in some ways, but of course that was never really diagnosed when he was young.

my advice - get POA in place while he still has capacity as I would have been stuffed without it. I have no idea what would have happened without it. I think me and my Mum would have ended up massively out of pocket trying to fund the care home whilst we got a court order in place for his affairs

we had tried for years too, asking him about what he wanted for his latter years, but he found it too overwhelming and would never give us a straight answer and got quite cross when asked. Good luck

A close male relative died suddenly last year . When we received his belongings we went to his house. He had distanced himself for many years . What a shock , we found it hoarded to the rafters . Tins of food about to explode and 15 years old past sell by dates . Awful cheap frozen meals in the freezer , all cheap basics food , yet he was very wealthy . There wasn't a single space , everywhere was ramned with stuff . Unopened box's . 7 vacuum cleaners , 12 mobile phones , I could go on and on . He spent money on things but had an accumulation of unused and useless things . Many people benefitted as we gave as much away as we could to help others and charity too . Then in came house clearance , it took months and months . He was an intelligent person but very strange in his ways .

I don't think there is anything you can do , as suggested power of attorney , also adult social services as a vulnerable adult for help and support

We had the same with my uncle , eventually he had a fall which caused a prolonged stay in hospital during which we had to clear a lot of stuff to enable a stair lift to be fitted. The house was clean and unrecognisable when they (stupidly) discharged him to home. Oh my he hated it, 2 years later following another fall he died his last words to me were ‘the house is a mess’.

Hi everybody. Firstly many thanks for your comments. It’s nice to know other people out there have had similar experience. Unfortunately, talking to him I’m not sure if he has the “real world” mental capacity to legally sign a POA. He seems totally oblivious to his household surroundings and the risks he is putting himself in. He will do everything to either ignore my offers of help or talk about the “situation”. I just get replies diverting the situation to subjects he is interested in. He’s a real slippery eel. The closest I’ve got to an answer is “Yes I need to deal with that soon, when I get time but I’ve got too much on at the moment”.

Yes, that’s the response that my Uncle used to give to me “I think I’m 5 years off needing to do that yet” was his standard response. Unfortunately, it’ll likely be a crisis that is the game changer. It’s impossible to change a very fixed mindset.

My Mum was very clever and insisted that my Uncle give her the next neighbour’s phone number. It took a lot of persuasion, but eventually he went round and asked for their number. Could you give your number to the next door neighbour’s next time you’re there, (maybe put it through their door), in case they need to call you?

could you arrange a solicitor to go to the house for POA? It really is very important

Its a terrible situation. My late father was very similar. Said he knew it was a messy house but refused to sort it out. It takes people like this years to get to this state and then it becomes completely overwhelming and their age and ability to resolve it goes.

That is the kind words. The harsher words are that my Father knew what he was doing, couldnt be bothered to get a cleaner. Too stingy to get any help and HE would decide how he lived. He often said that it bothered us more than it bothered him. We even got the fire service in. It was truly a fire hazard.

He was selfish as are a lot of people like this. Living in a mess means that my Father could never host anyone. Pushed himself onto others.

In the end I got a specialist house clearance company in when he moved into a home. No finger tip search. The family had a scan of anything that looked important. The rest was just dumped.

All those bloody excuses you say your relative claims are reasons to not tackle it is BS. I promise you it wont be done!

Also if he’s living alone get a key lock box

there's a lovely influencer called clean with bea and she does free cleans for situations like this. i'm sure i've seen a few others but i don't remember the names. it might be worth exploring these as an option.

People with OCD do have mental capacity. It is a very sad situation. It isn't selfish as the person above says. The World Health Organisation have OCD listed as one of the top ten illnesses in terms of suffering and quality of life. I imagine the bathroom needs fixed and for OCD reasons, he can't bear to have someone in the house. Same as he was uncomfortable with you using the loo.

You sound caring. I would go about it as, I want to help you. I can get you through this. Why don't we get somone in and I will help you. I would suggest adult social services not the right place to start. The understandng of OCD will be woeful. I would read up on hoarding and OCD and speak to a doctor. Your poor uncle is probably suffering terribly. Very sad and I am glad you want to support him.

I’ve actually spoken to his neighbours. They have both now got my brother and I’s phone number should they have any concerns ie not seeing him for a few days. This is so frustrating, we want to help but the state of play is that bad we can’t do it on our own. Damned if we do something and damned if we don’t, looks like we lose either way. The only consolation I can see that we get the help he needs whether he likes it or not. I wouldn’t be able to live with myself letting him carry on living like this. It’s seems inevitable that something bad will happen if the situation continues to go un-addressed, which if and when it does I/we will be be morally responsible. Not only that it could be argued that in allowing him to continue to live like this we are guilty of adult abuse.

My brother lives like this. I am certain he is autistic. He won't let anyone in and believes himself to be fine. No chance of getting poa or anything. His physical health is not great. He does go out and about a bit and the rest of us just try to keep an eye on him from a distance. He uses the same terms as pps upthread. Alway going to do something about it when he has time. He does have time. He either doesn't want to or doesn't know where to start. Either way, he refuses help. Thankfully he did agree to a keysafe for emergencies but that was only after he came out of hospital after a fall ( not in the house)

Until he's officially deemed to have lost his metal capacity, you will not be held responsible. I can't work out whether the mental capacity act (2008) is a positive thing or not.

Unfortunately, no way he will agree to a key safe. He doesn’t trust anyone. Totally pre-occupied and obsessed with money. People ripping him off, paying too much for stuff. Tax returns to be filled in, crunching data on stocks and shares, state of current stock market. Gonna be the richest man in the cemetery. He could live like a king, instead he lives like a homeless person but with a house. Highly likely he’s sharing the house with rodents.

Sounds very familiar @Lovingson I would not put it past my brother to have removed the keys or changed the code as he only had the safe under duress for the temporary carers to come in. The house is a deathtrap, particularly for someone not very mobile.

The point about mental capacity remains though. He's an adult, considered to have mental capacity to make his own decisions. Even when anyone else deems them unwise ( it actually says that in the legislation)
Sympathies though - it doesn't stop you worrying!

Kindly, I don’t think there’s anything you can do. My DM is on this spectrum although not as bad as this - my DF is still living and they do a modicum of cleaning - but she stuff omg the stuff! It’s got worse as she’s aged and she can’t see it, in fact she holds on very strongly to things and wont be perausaded to have a clear up / get a cleaner. The house is dirty and constantly looks like it’s just been burgled and the kitchen is pretty disgusting.

I hear similar phrases - I’ll think about that when I’ve done x or y, or I haven’t got time now. It’s striking how similar the phrases are.

I’ve got POA and help with online things and their finances, take them to appointments and shopping, I will do things like clean out the fridge, sort out the kitchen or do a bit of hoovering, but I won’t touch the loo, and won’t take on regular cleaning, because they could get a cleaner if they got a grip. But she won’t. I know I won’t change her.

I understand the urge to rush in and get everything sorted, cleared, cleaned. Because you can’t imagine living like this, it’s very hard to see your uncle living in squalor.

you aren’t morally responsible for consequences of the choices that another adult chooses to make about their life. No matter how wrong you think his choices are, he still has the right to make them. And if that leads to an accident, illness, whatever - that’s not on you because you have done what you could (advised him, offered help, shared numbers with the neighbour).

having said that you do have the option of raising an alert with the local authorities. You’ll need to state the specifics risks that are dangerous to his health - non functioning toilet, human waste, rotting food, rodent infestation, exits blocked, fire risk etc. And see where that takes you.

Once again, just want to say thanks for all your responses. The more research I do about this the more I realise I’m never going to be able to reason with him. He’s too far down the road in terms of his obsessions and lack of regard for his own personal well being. Gonna give myself a little breathing space from beating myself up and worrying about how it will reflect on me if and when something happens to him or how he will react if I “blow” him up to adult social services.

People have the right of self-determination in law. The only situation where this doesn't apply is if they become a danger to themselves or others and then you can involved various agencies (Social services, Health Visitor, Public health Dept)
I used a see a lot of this when I worked for the NHS as a Health Professional and had to visit people in their own homes. If they were compus mentus and wanted to live like a pig in muck, then as long as they were aware of the risks of having a house full to the rafters with inflammable material, I couldn't do anything.
Usually I performed a Risk Assessment and if I felt it unsafe to give them treatment then I explained that to them and told them to get at least one area tidied up before I came back.
Sometimes they complied, and sometimes they didn't. If they didn't then I refused them treatment.

Hi littlellnberet, thanks for your input, really appreciated. To elaborate on my original post. Having made the excuse to going to the loo, I had to overcome planks of wood restricting my access to cross legging. Asked for an explanation I was informed “if I keep it outside it will rot”. My Uncle who is 80+ has to fill in a tax return due to the income he gets from his savings. If I were in a position that I paid tax on savings,the cost of a few planks of wood would be a drop in the ocean

I'm sorry your Uncle has got to this position but you really mustn't hold yourself at all responsible. You didn't cause this and you can't stop it.

Hoarding is one of the hardest compulsions to overcome. OCD is also pretty tough and combined they're even harder. It's all about control and will be very deep rooted.

I'd definitely go for POA if at all possible, otherwise you could apply to the Court of Protection but that takes a lot longer. It's good you're in contact with the neighbours as they can let you know if a crisis does occur. As tough as it is, you may need to accept that this is how he wants to live. Don't feel guilty if you do involve social services, they're there to assess risk when people put themselves into risky situations.

I have a family member who is a hoarder. He is in his early sixties and I am sure that the problem will escalate.

The rest of us know there is a problem. But I don't think there is anything we can do.

He has capacity to make this set of choices. His collections, which are increasing in size and number, obviously give him a sense of comfort and pleasure.

The downside is the fire risk and the fact that he will not let people visit - because there isn't space for them to sit down - the downstairs loo is a store room, there are probably objects on the stairs and upstairs too.

He does have a social life outside the house.

I think it is probably like an illness. It is just there. It is part of who he is now.