How can we reduce the load on my mum for Nan?

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First time posting about this, so sorry if it's a bit long.
My grandmother is 80 and lives on her own, about ten minutes from my mum. My mum is round there or on the phone to her every single day. I live abroad so I'm not much use.
Nan is fine in herself. She cooks, she gets herself up and dressed, she's sharp as anything. She has a cleaner twice a week. But everything else goes through my mum. The shopping gets ordered and paid for by mum. Taxis to appointments, booked by mum. Which hospital, which appointment, mum sorts it. Mum keeps an eye on the tablets.
And the phone goes constantly. Can you order me this. Can you ring them about that. Can you pop in.
The thing is Nan doesn't want to move and doesn't want a care home, and honestly I don't blame her, she's managing. It's not that she can't do things. It's that all of it lands on mum.
A lot of this is only mum's job because it's all online. I think Nan would order the taxi herself, and the shopping, and her tablets, if she could just do it by phone. She can't do the internet, so mum does all of it.
I keep thinking she'd take some of it back if it worked the way it used to.
Mum is shattered. She won't say so but I hear it.
I think a lot of the ringing is boredom as much as anything, which makes me feel worse about wanting it to stop.
Before anyone asks why I don't take it on instead of mum: some of it I can't do from another country. The rest, I'll be honest, I don't want my day to be that either. Which is a horrible thing to type. But it's the same thing I'm asking on mum's behalf.
Has anyone found a way to move some of this off one person? Not more care, she doesn't need more care. Just fewer things going through mum.

What happens if your mum is away or ill?

Your nan needs a PA

My mother is older, has a laptop and smart phone and does these things herself. Why can't Nan physically go to the shops, etc?

How often do you call your Nan? As if it’s boredom that would help.

But otherwise your mum needs to set her own limits and boundaries. One shop a week so nan needs to plan ahead. Nan can phone the taxi. Nan can call people to deal with some things. My mum (your nan’s age) has a tendency to say “oh can you do it”, and when she’s well I push back on that. If the request isn’t urgent don’t jump to it, as otherwise it’s just to easy to have someone at your beck and call.

I agree that having everything move online has made things a lot harder for many older people.

I do wonder though exactly how well your Nan would really be managing even if things were phone based. The ‘boredom’ for example - that may not be quite that simple. It gets harder to entertain yourself if you are declining cognitively for example.

i would have a big conversation with your mum and then with your Nan, and I’d ask for a GP referral to the social prescriber in your area. They are usually attached to the surgery. If they’re good (not a given) it could make a real difference.

Age UK are another good option. A phone befriender, perhaps. Maybe your Nan could volunteer to befriend other people??

And I’d chip away at things, one at a time. What do you mean by ‘keeping an eye on the tablets’ for example? Is your Nan forgetting to take them? Is your mum filling a pill box for her? There are some pharmacies who will still fill dosette boxes if required. Or there are mechanical reminder systems (look at a Pivotell or st the Pilltime service.)

Exactly. It's not necessary to do all these things online. I suggest Nan is bored because she's not getting out or getting much human contact beyond phoning your mother.

My mum is 90 and lives by herself, she can’t use the internet either but her GP allows phone repeat prescriptions from named vulnerable people, has your mum spoken to the GP about this? Same with Taxis, they still have a phone number and still answer it when people call, mainly older people. She will also call and change appointments as required although I take her to each and every one.

unless your mum has other involved siblings (mine are useless and absent) then she needs to hand back to mum what she’s actually capable of doing herself, because trust me, your mum will only get busier and busier with gran.

Teach her the basics net time you're in the country-if she's sharp, she'll learn them soon. That generation had to deal with much tougher stuff than Tesco online and you might be surprised how quickly she gets in. Then she can join online groups, taking some of the load from your mum.

Your Nan can get regular prescription medecine ordered & delivered for free.
Your DM just needs to fill out a form at Nans GP or pharmacy

Your Dnan can apply for attendance allowance & spend it on anything to make her life easier
It is not means tested

I agree this would be ideal, but if she doesn’t see why she should do any of this, and if the OP’s Mum hasn’t reached the point where she refuses, what is going to make her motivated all of a sudden? From her perspective, why should she?

So I’d also say, encourage your Mum to cut down her visits. But I doubt she will, unless there is something else replacing it.

Complete the form for DNan

https://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance

Spend it on a cleaner, transport, social events, anyrhing

Your DM should visit every other day or less days per week

Your DM needs to set some boundaries

All these places that are online only - ask, very sweetly, to see their accessibility policy. People should be able to access these things without internet. My 92 year old father does. The request often generates a 'phone number so your Nan can book her taxis etc herself.

I think a lot of the ringing is boredom as much as anything, which makes me feel worse about wanting it to stop.

Does Nan go out at all? Does she have friends locally? Is she capable of getting out and getting on a bus? Are there any coffee mornings or knit and natter groups or similar nearby, at local churches or libraries perhaps? 80 isn't that old - many people in their 80s go to clubs and classes that aren't just for elderly people. How is her hearing? Can she follow and join in a conversation?

The local taxi firm for my mum has an automated system but for older or vulnerable people, you can ask them to set the system so it recognises the older persons number and the call goes straight through to a human to book. Your Nan’s local
company probably has something similar.

I agree with others, difficult as it is, if it's feeling too much for your mum standards are going to be have to drop and boundaries be put in place. If Nan can't or won't learn to use the internet and there aren't offline services for her then you can't magically magic the world back to the 90s. You just have to find reasonable solutions that might not be exactly as she wants but meet her minimum needs.

With food for example, obviously she needs food and if she can't get herself to the shops it seems reasonable for you or your mum to do a weekly or biweekly online shop for her, but this can be set up as a recurring order with the basics, and you can set up a system with nan where she keeps a list of anything else she wants added/changed and gives it to your mum once a week, that takes the whole task to no more than 10-15 mins a week. There should be no need for daily detailed phonecalls about shopping - and your Nan should absolutely be paying for her own food even if your mum is the one that clicks buy on the order. If this means sometimes she doesn't always have exactly what she fancies in the house to eat that is a shame but the reality of life if you're effectively housebound. Same with other purchases, your Mum should agree how often she's able to take 'orders' for other stuff, Nan keeps a list and your Mum (or you, from abroad) can do an Amazon blitz once a month or whatever. Maybe mum could take Nan clothes shopping twice a year but there should be minimal need then to worry about it in the meantime.

Medication and hospital appointments as others have said, if Nan is sharp why does she need so much input from your mum to manage all that, can she not keep her own paper diary on when her appointments are and what pills she needs to take and when? Dossett boxes are a great idea, again if she's really struggling maybe it could be a weekly job for your Mum to reload the weeks box but otherwise the mental effort of remembering to take them could be transferred across to nan?

The loneliness is probably the single biggest thing that's hard to overcome and I suspect the real reason why your nan has engineered such a dependence on your mum. Really I'd recommend considering a move into a sheltered housing type set up where there's lots going on and people around (not a care home, residents still live independently in sheltered accommodation). But that's up to her, no-one can force her. Others have good suggestions also about befrienders or perhaps a PA/social carer, there was a thread on here a while back about paid work caring for people who don't need physical assistance or personal care but do need a bit of company, maybe to be taken out on outings or help with errands/admin or just a nice chat - takes a bit of effort to get set up but if she could afford even a couple of hours a week with the right person it could make a big difference. But I think the mindset shift you all need to make, not just nan but the whole family, is that it's the responsibility of the lonely person to make themselves less lonely, not your mum's job to fill that gap. If she can't or won't do anything to change her situation and so just inevitably does feel bored and lonely, that's really sad but doesn't mean your mum has to become a martyr to her every whim which probably wouldn't even really make her feel happy anyway.

In my location there are free exercise classes for elderly weekly at central location, plus other social & hobby groups

There are volunteers who can provide help with transport, prescriptions, appointments, hobby groups etc

Your DM needs to find out from her local council or library can offer

Some libraries offer free delivery of library books, audio books

We have a social lunch once per month
Anyone can attend
£5 for soup, roll, dessert, hot drink per person

Carers don't have to just do physical care. They can visit and keep company, take your Nan shopping, accompany your Nan to appointments. I would sit down with your Mum and ask her what would help? Does she need to be able to switch the phone off for weekends or handover certain jobs. Does your Nan have friends? Are there other siblings. Could you comitt to ringing your Nan on a fixed day each week to give your Mum a bit of a break on the company side?

Would highly recommend a company such as https://drivingmissdaisy.co.uk/. They are not just for transport. Our local lady was mainly there for companionship and general help for our elderly relatives, with a bit of driving here and there to appointments etc.

reading all this I can almost guarantee that Nan wont want any changes to the way things are being done.

Your Mum is the one she is most comfortable with. She wont want strangers doing these jobs and until your own Mum puts some boundaries in place its going to get worse.

The best thing AGE UK told me is you must have boundaries. If you dont you will find your own Mum cannot go anywhere without worrying about Nan

This 100%
But your mum needs to make sure it is spent on things your nan needs..(and which takes some of the pressure off your mum) not just sitting in nan's bank gathering dust.

If your nan is bored, what do her days and weeks look like in terms if socialisation and social stimulation?

A PA could help with this, as well as a lot of the things your mum is currently doing. You can use direct payments for this, if a care package won’t fit the bill