Council run care homes vs private

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We are currently making decisions about my DHs elderly relative. Mil is adamant a council run care home will be fine, and she is pushing for continuing healthcare to fund it. I very much doubt the elderly relative will pass the assessment for continuing healthcare so our next option is the deferred payment scheme using the elderly relatives home.

My view is why not sell the home (worth a fair bit) and just fund the lovely private care home. Or top up the deferred payment scheme to fund the nice care home (does anyone know if that's possible?)

Mil wants to pursue council care home as it will be cheaper or poss free if Contining healthcare is offered. Mil is lovely but I actually feel like she is worried about her inheritance if we go for the nice private care home.

I dont have experience of care homes, but just have a feeling council run ones will be grim. Is this view stereotyping and actually they are usually fine? Any advice appreciated!

Not a great deal of difference at all. At the retirement home level of care, maybe a bit different but once they reach nursing care, pretty much zero difference. (Worked agency for years, have worked in at least 50 homes)

One tip I will give you is do not be fooled by the new built, clean looking super homes. The newness and over all better maintained interior will give you a false view of what’s the better home.
In my experience, the bigger the home, your relative will be no more than a name on a bit of paper. The smaller homes with 10-30 people in seem to always give a much superior care package.

Im a DN go into lots of care homes . Interestingly the most expensive one ( think dinner served silver service every night and hallway full of antiques ) I wouldn't let my worst enemy live in there ... the care is awful underneath the pretty exterior it's a shambles . The much cheaper slightly run down shabby chic one close by is fantastic , carers are wonderful !
Don't always judge a book by it's cover on care homes .

If you can try and find one run by an individual over a huge company- all day long.

I'm no expert but I've worked in council and private care homes. The care in council homes was the best. More staff, the management were 'hands on' and more ethical re residents and staff well being, and just generally a more pleasant atmosphere.

And if you do find one run by an individual I’d be asking how often they visit the premises etc. There’s a big difference between an owner with several homes, lives miles away and never visits compared to an owner that still has some hands on involvement in the business l.
Unfortunately these homes are hard to find now as the are gradually replaced with the super homes. But there still are some around.

There are hardly any council run homes these days. Some local authorities have hung onto them but they are few and far between. What area of the country are you looking in?

A private home may also be free if she gets full chc funding. IME council run homes are very good, I have seen private carehomes just in it for the money, some of them offer meals that none of the residents would be able to eat. All the homes I have visited or worked in have a mixture of council and self funded residents. The care and facilities are exactly the same. What does she plan to do if she doesnt qualify for chc funding. Does she have any complex needs. She will have a financial assessment at some point.

I think the assumption of a “council home” is a little wrong anyway. As far as I am aware there are no Council run homes for the elderly anymore. There are just cheap homes and expensive homes. All are run privately but if you receive council funding you will not be able to reach the amount it costs for the private homes.
Cheap homes will have a mixture of people paying private from house sales etc and people being funded. Private homes will exclusively have people paying privately.

Sorry that should have said that the public funding will not reach the amount for the more expensive homes not “private”

Only “council” run home I know in this entire district is a rehab home, so the elderly are sent there while they figure out a long term solution for them. These homes are good because like all public sector institutions there is more money in the pot! The staffing ratios are much higher.

I had my gran in a Council run home (4+ years) at £750 a week. I had my aunt in a Private home (4+ years) at £1200 a week. I preferred private home and sister preferred council run home. Both understaffed, just one slightly better decorated common areas than the other. Rooms you can decorate as you choose. Both houses sold to pay costs and very little difference in either.

My local 3 private carehomes, run by a large private provider, cost 1200 p.w. they have self funders and council funded residents, some residents are chc funded to the full amount . There is a new private home that costs 1750 pw but I dont know if its exclusive to self funders. Does she need a nursing or residential home, what area is she looking at.

There are no council run homes where I live. We looked at three for my parents, all about the same price. I cried when we came out of one, it was beyond dreadful and I wouldn’t put my worst enemy in there. The second one was nice but a bit down at heel and the facilities weren’t great. The one they went into was lovely, the staff were brilliant and it had a really upbeat atmosphere when you went in.

My criteria were cleanliness, definitely no smell of wee, friendly staff and decent food. We got all of those, the place smelt of roses - not industrial disinfectant.

You’re right the possibility of CHC funding is very remote indeed. Given it’s inevitably going to cost money, choose the one that feels right.

Where I am the council run care homes only accept clients who are funded by the council. Private clients have to go elsewhere.

The council run one is far better than most of the private ones by the way.

There are no council run homes in the area where I live or the area where I work either.

I do agree with the others about not being fooled by how the home looks.

DMIL's home is shabby, just has 35 residents and close to home. They are very, very caring and that comes across everytime we deal with them and in all of the relative's reviews.

Thank you so much everyone, really helpful. I was assuming expensive meant better but it is reassuring to know this isnt always the case.

Re paying for care, are there any benefits of selling the home to pay fees as opposed to the deferred payment scheme ?

This explains it all.

www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/deferred-payment-agreements-for-long-term-care

It feels like a lot less hassle to sell the house. We didn’t because there was no need but I would definitely have done it if the money had run out.

This is one of many areas where in my view the state tends to deliver better than private. Think of it as not-for-profit vs profit. Sadly though there are no state homes left in my area (save for a rehabilitation unit).

I’ve worked in care homes and as others have said I’d go for a smaller one for definite; i worked in one with 60 residents (20 to a floor) and it was hard to remember people’s names and because the company wanted to make as much money as possible the staff levels were low so we were run off our feet and couldn’t spend time with the residents.
I know you didn’t ask this but my biggest question would always be what activities do the home do for their residents and not just the more able ones

My view is why not sell the home (worth a fair bit) and just fund the lovely private care home.

I think the marketing departments of many "lovely" care homes are designed to attract the guilty relatives rather than the actual people who will stay there.

Will they really make use of all the facilities.

Have you had a look at how long the assets will last compared to the cost of the care home? When we were looking for DM, we noticed how much "cheaper" the termly fees for Eton College are compared to any cafe home.

As PP have mentioned, it's really a difference between homes where local councils cover the full fees and those where a top up is required. What would happen in the lovely private home when/if their funds ran out? Would you be in a position to fund the top up? Worst case, Imagine having to move from the lovely private home to a council run one at an advanced age when funds have run out.

The ones which require a top up do not do scholarships.

@FinallyHere

My view is why not sell the home (worth a fair bit) and just fund the lovely private care home.

I think the marketing departments of many "lovely" care homes are designed to attract the guilty relatives rather than the actual people who will stay there.

Will they really make use of all the facilities.

Have you had a look at how long the assets will last compared to the cost of the care home? When we were looking for DM, we noticed how much "cheaper" the termly fees for Eton College are compared to any cafe home.

As PP have mentioned, it's really a difference between homes where local councils cover the full fees and those where a top up is required. What would happen in the lovely private home when/if their funds ran out? Would you be in a position to fund the top up? Worst case, Imagine having to move from the lovely private home to a council run one at an advanced age when funds have run out.

The ones which require a top up do not do scholarships.

What on earth is the relevance of Eton?

The average stay in a care home is two years. The average house value is around £250k so would generate 4/5 years in a decent care home. You don’t get to choose whether or not you pay, if your assets are more than £23.5k, you pay. End of. And, as many of us have pointed out, council owned care homes no longer exist in many parts of the country.

I know you didn’t ask this but my biggest question would always be what activities do the home do for their residents and not just the more able ones.

That's such a good point. DMIL does have regular activities, although I'm not always convinced they're entirely suitable for someone so confused with Dementia but she does do some activities that definitely are. Whereas my DF had her DF put into a care home suddenly after a hospital visit. It was a very big home, none of the staff seemed to know the patient's names and there were no activities at all for the dementia patients.

She moved him on the advice of the SW to a much smaller home that again was snappy but they were utterly brilliant with him.

Agree with most of the comments here, in particular the 'first coat no knickers' ones where. you're paying for the chandeliers. That said, in Surrey I never found any Council-run care homes of the kind described (they'd abolished them all years ago, though I understand in the last few years they've set up around five or six, probably as they realised they were paying big private care homes a fortune to house council-funded residents there and were getting ripped off...)

Often you only find out what it's like after you've signed up and handed your parent over. Care home managers I've found are just lobbying for custom and you will never, ever meet the proprietor (talking about private ones, the only ones I ever got to experience.)

Old thing about getting LPA in Health and Welfare before you let your parent within sniffing distance of a care home.

As for it being two years in a care home generally, yes, well you might want to ask how that is exactly. It does seem a bit Logan's Run and I have my own theories about why I had to visit Mum daily for years to give her drink while the care homes refused to do so, after she'd been in one for, erm, roughly two years.

She lasted another four or so, because of our visits.

Sorry, that should be 'fur coat no knickers'!