Income needed to support private ed?

[bellatmum]

I'm not wanting to start a private vs state debate - but I am starting to think about schools for DS (almost 3) and trying to work out how much money we need to be earning to be able to afford private ed. I want him to go private but my DH says we can't afford it (although he would prefer private.) so I'm just wondering - those of you who have chosen private - what do you think is the minimum income to be able to afford it? Thanks

Surely it depends on your other outgoings

eg if you earn a million quid a year but spend it all on mortgage/bills etc then you can't afford it

If you earn £50k a year and have no mortgage and minimal bills then you prob can

It's more a disposable income issue is it not? And what you are prepared to forgo (eg holidays) to send your ds privately

Also bear in mind that if you have more children you would want them at the same school prob for primary at least. So could you afford to send more than one?

Do you not have any good state primaries in your area?

It depends hugely on where you live, but I would say £4 - £5K per term per child, ie up to £15K per year (after you have been taxed on the earnings of course). Most schools will give you a discount if you pay a lump sum up front.

I am only going on figures in this area -
10k per year for junior/prep school, plus trips, uniforms, social clubs acitivities.
£16k per year for secondary, plus money for trips, uniforms, social clubs, activities.

Per child. So, if we wanted to do it, we would need an annual income of around 45-50k, if we have another child,60-65K?

This is in the South West.

I read in the Times money section a while back, saying that in order to afford a totally private ed, you would have to be putting away about £140 a month per child from birth ...

Fees are variable and usually the increase in the fees is above inflation...

If you don't have financial help towards schools and assuming the higher rate of tax, you would probably have to earmark fees + 40%.

Prep age allow at least £10k pa net so that is about £14k gross income, before you take account of mortgage, bills etc. Preprep is slightly less, maybe £7.5k net, 10ish gross and in Nursery /Reception you may be able to use the LEA Early Years funding to offset part of the cost. You may get a small discount for a sibling of say 5 or perhaps 10% off the lower fees.

You''ll need 10-15k for prep depending on area, and 12-18k secondary.
Soem high end selective day schools are actually much cheaper.

You need an income which covers
Everything you need to spend money on now
plus
School fees - maybe £15k a year?

I think I read somewhere that the Independent Schools' Council reckons 'affordable' means school fees costing no more than 25% of income, but I can't recall whether they meant this gross or net. So it might mean an income of £60k - £90k to comfortably be able to afford to send one child private, assuming a 'normal' sort of middle class mortgage of about £150k.

When you consider the national average wage is something like £25k before tax, that puts it into perspective though ...

Assuming you need £10k per year for fees and extras, and you want to maintain your current lifestyle ....

You'd need to earn £12k if you were going out to work specifically to fund fees (the alternative being a SAHM).

If you are already on a modest income (eg 20k), you'd need an additional 14k.

If you are on a higher income (eg 60k, you'd need to earn an additional 17k.

Adjust up or down as required, and remember that there is government help in the early years.

My son is at pre prep in Kent. I pay monthly over 12 months. It started at being about £350 per month in nursery, a little more in reception. It went up to about £700 per month for y1 & y2. Next year (y3) it almost doubles, and stays about that until he is 13. After that I think it will almost double on a month by month basis if we go for further private education. A lot of people round here opt for grammar schools at that point not surprisingly. It has meant a life style change and there are lots of things we could do if we hadn't gone down this private education path but so far I am very happy. I think you have to visit your local schools, state and private and see if it is worth the sacrifices - in some cases it is and in others it probably isn't necessary.

School fees seem to rise by more than inflation, so factor in an annual increase of about 7-8% as well. If you're looking at private ed. for 14 years the compound increase that represents is fairly huge.

In my experience and based on what I know of friends etc you need a salary well into 6 figures to support 2 children, and it gets horrendous at 13+ ie £8000 per term (in the south east at least) plus you can bank on about £1000 per year per child on trips and uniform and as others have said at leat 5% rise each year as well as a proportionate rise as they get older ie reception fees go up at year 1, year 3 and year 5 irrepective of annual increase on top of that. ALso bear in mind that savings estimates as above were based on a stock market going up which we cannot rely on any more

Thanks all for your input - as an ex- teacher (now SAHM) I have experience of the local state schools and know the problems faced in those - and although my colleagues are doing a great job in many places, there are so many issues of SEN and majorly disruptive children leading to failling schools that I would prefer the smaller classes and fewer problems of private. It would probably mean I would have to go back to work (not sure that is what I want cos I have a younger dc as well). I would be willing to cut back on things (esp big stuff like holidays) but don't really want to be counting every single penny every day just to get by IYSWIM.

ds (11) goes to a selective private day school in south london - the fees are £12k a year at the moment - uniform's not too bad (about £400 for the first year when we had to get everything) and the only trip this year was skiing which he didn't want to do anyway - lots of kids get scholarships or bursaries, but ds's is only 10% (better than a poke in the eye ....) dh's salary is well into 6 figures so if ds2 wants to go too it should be manageable, we don't have an enormous mortgage which helps - however, what I'm dreading is having ds at uni, ds2 at school and dd starting secondary ...

Check out the costs of the sort of schools you are thinking of. They evidently vary hugely and obviously that's going to make a big difference. Would a good compromise be to aim for private at secondary only? It would give you longer to save for it too.

I echo Countess Dracula here. It has to be worked out as a long term commitment over several years (I would build in 6% increase in fees at least). It depends on:

1. level of mortgage and other essential outgoings

2. how many years you have left to work and to what extent your current salary can be maintained/increased for the requisite number of years

3. how much pension you have/want to set aside

4. how much you have left over after fees and mortgage etc. to maintain your desired lifestyle

5. how many DCs you have

6. whether you want to go private the whole way (prep and senior)

Private school fees are eyewatering - 10-14k (out of net income) p.a. for a decent prep, then 15k - 27k per year for a senior school (unless you can off set some fees with bursaries), without all the extras (uniform; school trips; music tuition etc.)

Even if you can afford it, unless it you are one of those that can pay fees without any real dent in your finances, you will ask yourself now and again if it is worth it!

hi my hubby and i are both teachers in secondary schools - i am part time. Our joint income is around £55K and we are going to remortgage about £50K for our son(9) secondary schools independent education. I have managed to save about the first year (it has taken me four years to save the first years fees)...its hard, very hard...will have to wait and see if we can manage...well, we will have to manage

Well this is not an easy subject but DH did a calculation on this. He is hoping to pursue other interests and we have two children at private school.

He assumed the following:

1. Pension commitments of 15% of gross income (which is nowhere near enough for us)
2. A mortgage of £100k
3. Two cheap cars (hmm)
4. No cleaner/gardener/aupair
5. Savings of £5k a year
6. Primary school fees of £7k a year, secondary school fees of £11k a year (they don't come much cheaper)
7. Two children

On that basis, he worked out that it would take a joint income of around £100k.

is it really worth getting yourself in debt for this? i know its a worrying issue but as a teacher myself i think that schools are very good with pupils who have supportive parents and what to achieve, after all their league table results are dependent on parents like us! And if your children are high avhievers, they will be in the top sets and wont have to mix with undesirables! There are great grammer schools around if that is an option in your area, scholarships, assisted schools etc that may be an alternative.
On the other side, if you are determined then most lea's give a private education grant towards private education, after all they have to pay per pupil no matter how they are being educated. hope this helps.

'most lea's give a private education grant towards private education'

eh? never heard of that... is this some means tested thing or what?

I do believe its true that if your DS or DD is bright they will do well almost anywhere as they (trust me i have seen how the kids divide up into friendship groups) do tend to stick with their own kind...but unfortunately my son struggles academically and so i know he won't be in those top sets

The popular choice where I live is to do private for pre-prep and prep when fees are substantially lower and then switch to grammar school for secondary. Fees differ quite substantially by school. I did a spreadsheet to calculate the overall costs (including compound fee increases!) and to compare different schools. Made for interesting reading and also helped me confirm that I could actually afford it without making any noticeable sacrifice (found that a bit surprising). The real sacrifice will kick in if I opt for private school at secondary level.

Have never heard of a private education grant though. Certainly not on offer where I live as far as I'm aware.

Should add that you do get funding for nursery/reception whether state or private (is that what sunshine meant?). Worth about 25% of reception fees and disappears from year 1 onwards.

I've never heard of a porivate education grant.

Why would an LEA pay something like that? I would think that they would be glad to save some money if people choose private school, not then voluntarily subsidising it?

Sorry, i mean private or course no-one has heard of a porivate grant