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Original poster

Please help me Level 4 Maths = What??

41 replies

RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 19:54

The entrance paper for Independant schools here is set to Level 4 MATHS

But what does that mean?

The exam is in January and so SATS are in May so what about the middle bit?

If they examine to Level 4 but what about topics not covered until spring term ie for the SATS.

Please help because I am very confused

How many children will get it?

As far as I can see it is not a grade but a thing that says how much is covered.

Please explain?

.

OP posts:
MunchedTooManyMarsLady · 03/03/2005 19:59

that's why some people get exam coaching honey. You can pick up books which help from WHSmiths or bookshops. If you don't want to go down the tutoring route then speak to someone who has and they should be able to tell you which books you need.

It is a bit rich testing them on things that they haven't learnt yet though isn't it?

hth

SueW · 03/03/2005 20:07

At DD's school (private) it's rumoured that the children don't learn much new in Y6 because they are consolidating knowledge from the past couple of years so I guess in that way they are already covered to L4 and anything extra they learn is going to get them L5 (?) in SATS.

Not got there yet so this is pure rumour!

roisin · 03/03/2005 20:07

I think most schools will have taught to Level 4 by Christmas RTK. Many yr6 children will be doing Level 5 SATs papers in the May.

What the independent schools are claiming by this is (I think) that you should not be disadvantaged by not having a tutor, or not having been prepared/taught for 11+ or Level 5 SATs. ...

Of course whether or not this is true is another debate entirely ...

You really need the current Yr6s - Freckle, ks, Tigermoth, Hopefulmover, etc.

Have you got this wonderful experience next year?

Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 20:22

Yes

It is for DS to go to DH school and he did the old English and Maths papers over Half Term

Just to see how much he knew

We are really chuffed with English He got 82% is came back today.

But the Maths he didn't know lots of the topics so only got 30/75.

When DH questioned the guy who set the Maths he said it was set to level 4

Yesterday one of the Maths teachers went through the paper with DS and is going to tutor him 30 mins each week.

But I was very last night when I worked out that as the exam was in Jan but SATS were in May there would be a big gap between the two.

I didn't really want to go down the tutor line cos I only want DS to go to DH school if he will cope when he is there

We don't want him to go and then struggle there IYSWIM cos that is not fair on him.

DS is desperate to go to his Daddy's school

He doesn't even want to talk about anywhere else but we have told him he has to put down the local grammar

We are too far away for the comp it is oversubscribed.

OP posts:
Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 20:33

So this Level 4 thing is deffo something that is done then onto Level 5

so what is the difference

is it the same topics

just harder work?

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Freckle · 03/03/2005 20:35

A lot of these types of exams include subjects which the children haven't covered. The 11+ papers include algebra, which they don't even start until Year 7 and, according to a tutor we spoke to (grammar school maths teacher), there is even A level stuff in there. Totally ridiculous. Not sure what it's supposed to prove, other than to test how a child copes when faced with something they've never met before.

I don't think you need worry that some Level 5 stuff will be taught between January and May. They may learn new stuff in geography, science, etc., but the bulk of the maths and English will have been covered by now. DS1 is constantly coming home moaning about how bored he is at school because they just keep doing the same stuff over and over.

If you're interested, DS1 came home with some books given to him (and all other Y6 children) by the school which are to prepare them for the SATS. Unfortunately, DS1 has taken them back to school and I don't have a note of their titles. I know that they cover English, Maths and Science and cost £3.99 each (cos that is what we will be charged if any get lost!). If the boys' schools are open tomorrow (closed today because of snow), I'll ask DS1 to bring them home again. If not, it will have to wait until next week.

Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 20:42

That would be brill Freckle thanks

Yes this exam had FACTORIALS in

It did have an explanation but still it was 4 marks gone

well he did work our 5! cos followed the example but not to do the sums

AND WE DID NOT TIME HIM COS IT WAS TO SEE HOW MUCH HE KNEW NOT THE TIME. IYSWIM.

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Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 20:43

I need to find VERBAL REASONING BOOKS too

but think they are in WHSMITHS.

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Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 20:46

One of the problems here is that there are 2 prep schools that stop at 11 {year 6}

And they really pump the boys for the exam and then the kids get in BUT then can't cope

cos they were pumped so much

We really didn't want that for DS

Most prep schools go til 13+ but these 2 stop at 11 so they can get into the intake for primary schools

OP posts:
milliways · 03/03/2005 20:48

Smiths & Waterstones do them. Good KS2 revision books go up to level 5 (Maths), and explain how to tackle different sorts of questions with colouful diagrams etc (helpful for rusty Mummies)

Freckle · 03/03/2005 20:48

Sometimes it's not so much practising the actual questions as understanding the exam technique. I sent DS1 to a tutor for a short while, really to find out if there were any areas where he needed extra help (this was for the 11+). Apart from that, we got him to do practise papers so that he was comfortable with the format and hopefully become au fait with the technique of timing himself - that one didn't work because he completely forgot to keep an eye on the time during the first 2 (out of 3) papers!

So much about passing an exam is to do with feeling comfortable, knowing how to pace yourself, knowing when to leave a question and move on if it's too difficult (coming back to it at the end if you have time). It has less to do with actual knowledge tbh - although that's helpful .

Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 20:56

Yes I know DS is very very slow thought processing

He has Dyspraxia so will get 25% extra time but is still very slow

That is what will have to improve

Also his mental arithmatic is very slow.

It ia 99% of the time is correct but slow to get there.

That is why we didn't worry about the timing over Half term cos we wanted to know what he knew at that stage.

OP posts:
Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 20:58

Thanks guys you lot are brill

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Yorkiegirl · 03/03/2005 21:00

Message withdrawn

Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 21:03

ok thanks brill YG will do

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tigermoth · 03/03/2005 21:16

just time for a quick message, now, but will come back later.

Can't give you advice on independent school tests, as ds only did the 11+ . I was shocked when I first looked at the standard of questions ds had to answer in maths. I knew he hadn't covered all the topics at school (or if he had, not very well and it hadn't stuck in his brain too well, as maths was not his strongest subject). I got some books and ds and I ticked things off as we went along. We tried to spend about 15 minutes day a few times a week on this. It boosted his confidence in his abilities and gave him extra grounding in the basics. I am very glad we did it. I don't feel it transformed ds into a maths whizz, but it probably pushed his 11+ marks up a little. His teachers said they could see he had been working on his maths, and they moved him into the top set. I have long since stopped giving him extra maths, but he seems fine in the higher group and teachers say he is managing the work well.

sorry have replied in a rush, will come back and read this thread properly!

Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 03/03/2005 21:23

That is great to read tigermoth

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tigermoth · 04/03/2005 07:47

jut wanted to add, the 11+ ,maths test was much easier than ds expected - all his friends agreed too. We assumed the maths test would be of NFER Neislon standard ( these are a range of recommended 11+ sutdy books available from Smiths). However, the non verbal reasoning was considered difficult by everyone. With hindsight, I wish ds had spent more time practising the non verbal reasoning techniques rather than going over the maths.

Also, what helped ds with his maths was not so much the NFER Neilson test practice books (they frightenend him - and me!) - but more basic key stage 2 maths study books, which simply explained all the areas covered with practice questions to do.

As freckle says, the standard of some of the maths questions in the 11+_was unrealistically high for lots of children. I made sure my son realised he wasn't expected to get them all right in order to pass.

Freckle · 04/03/2005 09:07

Sorry, RTKM, but the boys' schools are closed again today, so I won't be able to find out the names of the books until Monday at the earliest. Boys, of course, are delighted - although I'm not as they spent much of yesterday complaining of being bored!

Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 04/03/2005 09:20

tigermoth and freckle

Thanks for your help

I realised that the 11+ is in November so even earlier than Independant one in Jan.

Just over 8 months

We have snow here but still school.

It can wait til next week,

Last night Yorkie Girl went through loads of info with me Thanks

Good point about verbal reasoning tests

You guys are brill

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Freckle · 04/03/2005 09:49

I agree with tigermoth about the importance of practising the non-verbal and verbal reasoning papers. Questions on the maths paper are likely to have been met in one form or another in school. The other papers, particularly the non-verbal, may be something a child has never come across before.

Not sure about tests for independent schools, as I only have experience of 11+, but, if they are along similar lines, then your child needs to feel at ease with these sorts of questions. The worst thing is, no matter how bright and intelligent a child, if they are faced with the unknown it can completely undermine their confidence and affect how they perform.

Original poster
RTKangaMummy · 04/03/2005 09:54

That is what I said to DH

DS could be completely stuck unless he realises that you should move on to the next question if you don't know answer.

BTW what are NON verbal reasoning?

OP posts:
Janh · 04/03/2005 09:55

Shapes and patterns and things, Kanga - eg sequences of squares/circles, black bits and white bits, which one comes next - that kind of thing.

Janh · 04/03/2005 09:56

sample paper

Freckle · 04/03/2005 09:57

Look here for an example, Kanga.