Labour U-turns on private schools

[Another76543]

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-u-turns-on-plan-to-scrap-charitable-status-of-private-schools-12971212

The Labour Party seem to have finally realised that removing charitable status from private schools isn’t quite as simple as they thought it would be, and that it doesn’t affect the VAT position in any case.

I quote, from the article,

“Speaking in 2021, Ms Reeves said: "Right now, private schools enjoy charitable status which makes them exempt from both business rates and from VAT at a cost to the taxpayer of £1.7bn every year.”

Even the Shadow Chancellor doesn’t understand the tax position of private schools. What else don’t they understand?

They don't understand any of it! None of it makes sense. I think they back tracked because they FINALLY realised that this would be challenged in court, cost them millions and be dragged out for years. Just goes to show that they haven't really looked into the whole anti-private school attack at all. Will be interesting to see what happens when they try to get closer to Europe as you can't tax education in the E.U.

No surprise there then!

This has been a major policy of theirs for years. They have been suggesting that removing charitable status would mean the end of all tax breaks for private schools which simply is not the case as the law currently stands. People have been pointing this out. How on earth have they only just realised that removing charitable status wouldn’t impact the VAT position? What else about their policies are they misleading the public on?

It’s quite concerning that the potential future chancellor doesn’t understand basic tax law.

Am I the only one who is worried that the fees will be unaffordable? Two working parents prioritising spending on independent school fees over nice house/car/holiday etc.

We worked bloody hard to be in the position to make this choice. Understand the need to improve state schools but that would be unlikely to happen during my child’s education lifetime.

This may push us to relocate overseas from a financial perspective.

If only the Labour Party leadership had access to a competent lawyer who could have talked them through the complexities and unintended consequences of piecemeal amendments to long established charity laws, however well intentioned, prior to making big policy statements.

Oh. Hang on…

British parents should never have to pay tax on education here in the UK. If private schools have to pay it then it'll soon roll out to universities, making it even more unaffordable for many people.

Labour has not been in contention for years. Now there is a real chance of them getting into power they are realising that the popular view points they have been spouting will not work in the real world.
I suppose changing their policies to be more realistic is a good thing, as people will know what they are voting for but watching the u-turns doesn't lead to think they will be much different than the current lot.
Working people will still get shafted but the NHS might be a little better.

Fees will become unaffordable for lots of middle class parents. An additional 20% will be the final straw. It won’t affect the most wealthy, meaning that private education becomes even more elitist and privileged.

Schools which end up closing won’t be the large, wealthy, public schools. It’ll be the smaller schools, the ones where parents just about scrape together the fees, and the ones which often to cater to this with additional needs. It’s a ridiculous policy.

The Labour Party were saying they would do it ASAP once in government. Now U turn. Honestly, what a charade this wannabe government is.

In the meantime people from middle incomes are stressing over this and how they can afford the increase. The effects on kids education and their future. Only despicable and envious people can’t see the detrimental effects on all of us. So long they can fuck the perceived better off bring it on right? In the meantime the really rich people are not even blinking and eye and thinking private schools are worth every penny.

The Labour Party should be concentrating their efforts on how they are going to improve the state system for the 94% of children rather than obsessing about how to damage the education of the 6%.

The charitable status of private schools and their liability for VAT are two separate things. Labour would have had lengthy difficulty in removing charitable status, and it's unnecessary for the taxation that they want to implement.

Private schools don't pay VAT as under EU law, all education is exempt. Brexit means that this can now be changed, so they can now force private schools to pay VAT, along with universities, after school clubs and private nurseries, should they choose to in the future.

It's a terrible policy and a massive vote loser from the silent majority that make up the bulk of the UK electorate

It needs to be scrapped completely.

I don't know anyone that will vote for a party suggesting VAT will be applied to education

It will only serve to worsen things for the vast majority, all for 30seconds of bedgrudgery optics.

Bananas

Of course they backtracked on charitable status - it's a minefield and they enjoyed using the rhetoric of private schools as charities to whip up public support for the changes.

Listened to Starmer on Radio 4 this morning saying the cash from VAT on school fees will go to more teachers for state schools.

Where the fuck are they going to whip up another 6000 teachers? Teacher training targets in many subjects have been woefully missed each year - this year being the worst. Also good experienced teachers are leaving the profession in droves. What a farce!

amp.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/12/only-half-of-required-number-of-trainee-secondary-teachers-in-england-recruited

He seems to be unaware of the recruitment crisis in state schools. Schools can’t fill vacancies and yet he thinks that he’s going to magically find 6,000 more teachers. Even if he could, where will these 6,000 teachers actually go? Do schools have unused classrooms waiting to be filled?

Not only does he have a magic money tree, he has a magic teacher tree, and and magic empty classroom tree. It would be laughable if there wasn’t a real possibility of these people running the country.

@cordiality “Private schools don't pay VAT as under EU law, all education is exempt. Brexit means that this can now be changed, so they can now force private schools to pay VAT, along with universities, after school clubs and private nurseries, should they choose to in the future”

As I said, I do hope Labour leadership have sought competent legal advice on implementation of their revised plans to amend specific aspects of VAT exemptions for children’s education, given they clearly didn’t think through the consequences of piecemeal changes to charity law.

Labour have also stated they don’t intend to deviate from EU laws. Perhaps their legal advisors could clarify that also.

This has been a weak manifesto policy that gets binned after they've won/lost an election. Quite why they've done it before they've won/lost I'm not too sure. If Starmer has some clever strategy here I'm yet to see it.

Very good point. He doesn’t want to diverge from EU laws; he’s publicly stated this.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-we-dont-want-to-diverge-from-eu-says-sir-keir-starmer-12966338

Imposing VAT on education would be diverging from EU laws. Perhaps what he meant to say is that “we don’t want to diverge from EU laws, apart from where we think we can get a few more votes”.

@bubblewaffle
"Am I the only one who is worried that the fees will be unaffordable?"

If you were on here saying you couldn't afford food or your rent, you'd be told to get a better paid job. I suggest that's what you do.

@CurlewKate

As a matter of fact many people are currently considering getting better jobs in other countries where they are not treated as cash cows. Good luck with the shortfall on taxes if you are on benefits.

Hold on?
He's spending it on 6,000 new teachers?

I read he's spending it on putting a fully qualified mental health professional into every school.

Because as we all know, the NHS waiting lists for mental health services don't exists and there are 24,000 bored psychiatrists twiddling their thumbs out there.

Even if he could, where will these 6,000 teachers actually go? Do schools have unused classrooms waiting to be filled?

Yes, we have plenty of classrooms full of kids who don't have a teacher so there'd be loads of room for them. However it works out at about a quarter of an extra teacher per school so wouldn't even make a dent in the shortage.

From Sky News:

A Labour Party spokesperson said it makes "no apology for relentless focus on how to drive high and rising standards in our state schools".
"Because we are the party of fair taxes, we will end the unjustifiable tax break afforded to private schools and fund recruitment of over 6,500 more teachers and put access to mental health counselling in every school."

It’s probably the same with previous money raising policies - the money is promised to be spent more than once. It’s amazing how far this 1% of the state education budget is going to go…..

It’s lucky that we apparently have thousands of teachers and psychiatrists just waiting around for the Labour Party to fund them……

@OhCrumbsWhereNow no he is saying that there will be "access" to mental health professionals. This could mean online or a helpline as these are the cheapest options and then they could then say "well we provided access".
Load of bollocks, the lot of it!

Exactly what l have said on other threads - it won't end with schools they don't like!

Today Starmer has said schools do t have to pass on the VAT. Eh, it's a sales tax? Is he saying schools like my sons reduce fees by 20% and then charge VAT? Madness