Should Y7 science classes on reproduction include the clitoris?

[Wineoclocksomewhere]

Am I being unreasonable in being surprised that there was no mention of this on the diagrams my 12 year old is currently using? Or is it because they don’t ‘directly’ involve reproduction? I can’t work out if I’m being OTT or actually making a reasonable point that female sexuality is not properly promoted to young people....

If it's reproduction, then the clitoris isn't involved, strictly. If it's female and male anatomy, it should be.

Get your info direct from teacher kids are horrendous at portraying whole lesson objectives
It should be labelled but it's year 7 science so if they remember a couple of parts and what they do that would be great

She showed me the worksheet and it’s definitely not included. I just feel it’s missing an opportunity really. And that it’s a little bit misogynistic to miss out any reference to it... but I do get that it’s more anatomy than reproduction.

@Lougle

I agree but then I think is that controlling women?

So I think sex and reproductive lessons for humans can’t be separated!

So all should be covered

She is mortified at the idea that I’m going to complain about this to the school 😂... (I’m likely not but I did make sure she knows what it is!)

I don’t think you’re being OTT at all. Is the urethra on the diagram? That’s not used for reproduction either.
It’s not like they are going to have another module where they revisit it.
For some girls their families will never give them this information so they should be able to get it at school.
An anonymous email to school to spare your daughter?

I am happy to email and explain why I’m doing so to DD to be honest. Too much history / feminist concerns behind it all to ignore in my opinion. She did say they were all coping better than expected with the whole subject in that they aren’t giggling etc - what a perfect time to embrace female sexuality/ choice etc, was my thought.

It’s a science lesson, not PSHE. They’ll be teaching reproduction, not sexuality. Email the PSHE coordinator and check it’s included, leave the science teacher alone to teach the science curriculum.

It absolutely should be included.

Why would basic anatomy not belong in a science lesson?

Don't complain. The clitoris is not relevant to the areas covered in KS3 science. Questions about it might be answered in a class discussion and may be covered during PSHE lessons.

My reproduction lessons in year 7 cover changes in puberty, specialised cells (egg and sperm) and their adaptations, male reproductive system (testes, sperm duct, penis, etc) female reproductive system (ovum, ovaries, oviduct, uterus, cervix, vagina) and then we move on to plant reproduction drawing direct comparisons to the human reproductive systems.

In Year 8 we recover the human aspects of reproduction and move on to sexual intercourse and the journey of the sperm cells (from a science perspective not emotional or pleasure - with the exception that mutual consent will be covered), fertilisation, development of a baby and contraception.

These lessons are always open for class discussion and if someone asked what a clitoris was I would answer and move on.

PSHE will cover sex and relationships from the emotional side.

Oops missed out that we cover the menstrual cycle in year 7 and 8.

Surely the clitoris is part of human reproduction, since sexual pleasure is the primary driving force in human reproduction?

You’d also need to know where and what the clitoris is if you are going to learn how reproductive tissues develop into male or female during embryonic development.

Hopefully this will be on the year 8 curriculum, but no harm in politely checking.

@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime ha! I’ve just done a bulk of year 7 & 8 science with my 6 year old then - we covered gametes, female reproductive structures (cervix up), fertilisation, implantation, IVF and then genetic engineering. All led by him, but it was a bit of an odd request for 0630

I am a science teacher,

As said by pp @Lougle

If it's reproduction, then the clitoris isn't involved, strictly. If it's female and male anatomy, it should be.

I always stick up detailed anatomical diagrams of make and female reproductive diagrams, and talk about them, (mostly as I was shocked that pupils didn’t know that pee doesn’t come out the vagina) then focus on the parts that we need them to remember for labelling diagrams etc.

Some classes ask loads of questions, others die quietly from embarrassment...

We certainly don't look at development of fetuses in that much detail. Perhaps that would be appropriate in a school in a very high achieving area with very able pupils but not in your bog standard state school or at least not at mine, the majority of children I teach come to us with a reading age below 9 and an attention span for listening to lecturing of about 10 minutes, 15 at most. We get the bare essentials covered.

I thought that the female orgasm made reproduction more likely as it helps to move the sperm along. I saw this in a BBC documentary. So I think it should be included, but that would be a curriculum decision.

@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime I know - I’m just mostly amused that this morning’s rabbit hole has come up on a thread!

@Cuntryhouse interesting point. The video we watched this morning talked about uterine contractions helping sperm to get to the Fallopian tube. It’s easy to think that orgasm could enhance that, but I don’t know for sure.

@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime

Don't complain. The clitoris is not relevant to the areas covered in KS3 science. Questions about it might be answered in a class discussion and may be covered during PSHE lessons.

My reproduction lessons in year 7 cover changes in puberty, specialised cells (egg and sperm) and their adaptations, male reproductive system (testes, sperm duct, penis, etc) female reproductive system (ovum, ovaries, oviduct, uterus, cervix, vagina) and then we move on to plant reproduction drawing direct comparisons to the human reproductive systems.

In Year 8 we recover the human aspects of reproduction and move on to sexual intercourse and the journey of the sperm cells (from a science perspective not emotional or pleasure - with the exception that mutual consent will be covered), fertilisation, development of a baby and contraception.

These lessons are always open for class discussion and if someone asked what a clitoris was I would answer and move on.

PSHE will cover sex and relationships from the emotional side.

A clitoris is a physical part of anatomy, not an emotion

Do you strictly only label the parts used for reproduction in year 7, no additional information like what the urethra is?

@Springchickpea yes, my own Dd knew from an early age too.

It's amazing what children do t know though, I've seriously been asked 'when do boys start their periods' etc.

Alot of class discussion this year was about the Trans issue "well some men have periods and babies" and "but you can change sex" that took up alot of time and is generating alot of confusion among children. I would be more concerned about how that is being taught/dealt with than anything else.

the majority of children I teach come to us with a reading age below 9 and an attention span for listening to lecturing of about 10 minutes, 15 at most. We get the bare essentials covered
@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime

That’s so sad Do you manage to get most of them caught up? What happens to them post 16/18? What happens to the odd higher achieving child in these classes? (Sorry for the thread hijack, I have a DS in Y7 in a state secondary that has just abandoned streaming, so am interested to know)

I remember all through science lessons (mid 1990s-early 00s) never seeing a diagram or having a lesson that included both the female reproduce system and the rest of the internal organs. It was like it wasn’t ‘polite’ to acknowledge wombs existed if you were talking about livers or small intestines. I still wasn’t 100% sure of where my own uterus sat in relation to the rest of my body (behind the intestines, in front??) until I first got pregnant and had an ultrasound age 27.

The clitoris is a part of your anatomy, it is flesh and blood vessels like anything else, why shouldn’t it be labelled and taught in relevant science lessons.

@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime I really don’t think I could handle that subject well at all, so I take my hat off to you! How do you do it? Do you address biological sex vs gender? Seems risky in this current climate, I’m afraid to raise this topic with some of my friends!

@Darcylewis
The urethra is included on the male diagram that we label but not on the female and I would use the image in our text book to show that women have three holes and don't urinate out the vagina as many think. The female diagram that we label only shows the ovaries, oviduct, uterus, cervix and vagina.

We don't cover clitoris or orgasms from either side or at least don't use that terminology (ejaculation instead). We focus purely on how babies are made and the body parts directly required for that to happen and that is enough information for most classes.

Ofcourse I don't disagree and these areas are important but I don't think they are necessary during a ks3 lesson. It's enough to make sure they are solid on the basics and deal with their already formed misconceptions, whilst keeping an eye out for any possible safeguarding issues that need flagging.

Personally I think (and students have asked) that it should be covered in more detail in year 11 addressing these areas when it is more relevant to them.