Are the academics really very poor at Gordonstoun?

[SchoolDilemmaScotland]

Have name changed for this. We are deciding on senior school at the moment for DD and are in Scotland. We really like the ethos and look of Gordonstoun but I’m really stumbling over the academic results. They are very much lower than other schools. Are there any current or past Gordonstoun parents who could give their opinion? I understand that academic results aren’t everything but I think they should be considered.

Afraid I can't help you with your specific question, but we are looking at Gordonstoun too. Like you, the ethos and broad education really appeals. I went to a school with many international pupils and it def affected the results table. We had a few who did very well each year, and then a more average bunch (that's where I was ) and then a whole group who did poorly - mainly due to language and lack of motivation.. Our DS isn't hugely academic so I am not too worried about their stats but would hope that he'll meet his potential.

I do know they don't house their normal teaching staff. Now, given the location and where the fabulous staff would most likely to be moving from (a long way, given the relative lack of local competitors compared to pretty much anywhere in the U.K.), that is going to affect teacher recruitment quality.

Other boarding schools in much "easier" locations give accommodation to every teaching member of staff. For a young, hungry, teacher it's going to be more attractive to go and work at teddies, or Rugby, etc.

That concerned me when I looked there.

@Greybow Thats very interesting. I didn’t specifically know that but I did have some concerns about attracting good teaching staff and obviously wondered to what extent that could be a factor in low grades. My dd already has some ideas on what she’d like to study at uni and all courses will require good grades. I don’t want to do her a disservice by putting her in a school that just won’t facilitate that. Even though we like everything else about it. The school is also very secretive about its results. Some information is released which gives a general sense of not being very high achieving. On the other hand they claim that 96% of their leavers go to their university of choice. The two don’t seem to add up! Any parents out there?

Beware of schools that say ..this or that percentage of children got into their universities of choice,its meaningless,if you think about it ,a child with poor predicted A levels isnt going to put on the uni form,Oxford,Durham,St Andrews etc are they. as they know they are unlikely to get an offer.they are going to put down unis that make offers on lower grades,but that means of course that the child has got into its University of choice,its a meaningless thing to say and is usually used as window dressing by schools with poor academics..Ask for a complete list of leavers destinations(and courses) for the last five or so years.

My niece went to Gordonstoun - she finished about 2 years ago so I'm not current. However, I would say that @peoniesarejustperfect hits the nail on the head about international schools and the group that lack motivation (and at Gordonstoun, need) to do well academically. Going on to university is not the be all and end all of the school, and for a lot of pupils that is not what their future will hold.

Re teachers and accommodation - there is some staff accomodation on campus (not just for boarding house staff), and a network of rooms / houses / farm cottages to let around the area which if you are at Gordonstoun you would get to know about. And renting is a lot cheaper than further south! I've never heard of accommodation being an issue for the teaching staff. Gordonstoun staff are valued tenants around the locality. Re the 96% figure (and I am surmising here, I don't know the figures), I would suggest that means 96% of these that aim to go to university and hence put in the academic effort to get what they need. It definitely won't be 96% of the full final year cohort. My niece got the grades she needed. It wasn't always easy and I would not say Gordonstoun is any sort of an academic hothouse - but that's not what it says it is. And I have to say the resilience learned there has stood her in good stead during the last year of university mayhem.

@MargaretHooper thank you. I certainly don’t suggest university is the route for everyone. But, it’s likely to be the route for my dc and I imagine it must be harder to study in an environment where academic achievements aren’t high on the agenda for many. Are you able to say what grades your niece got? It would be really interesting to know what the top achievers are getting grade wise and what sort of proportion of students we are talking about. I’d like to be reassured that the school can ably motivate and challenge a pupil with academic aspirations as well as those with none! Has anyone else heard any talk on the school’s financial viability? I’m also trying to check that!

I won't give the subjects my niece studied as that would identify her. She got ABB, which was more than she needed.

Re finances - it's a private limited company so there is not a lot of info out there. The latest published accounts / annual report is on the Companies House website, but it's not very recent, for the year ended 31st August 2019. The results for the year ended 31st August 2020 falls due by 31st May 2021. There were plans for expansion into Canada (Nova Scotia) but I presume that will be on hold at the moment.

I'm hundreds of miles from Gordonstoun but we still take part in a prep school's challenge there most years as the school has got such a reputation. I'm not sure it's a 'good' reputation as such. More a quirky, prestigious, posh reputation.

I only know of 2 children who went on to there. Both did really well in terms of reaching their own potential. But they were definitely not academic children and, on paper, wouldn't look like successes, even though the school brought our the best in them.

I suspect it's a great school just very, very non selective.

@manicinsomniac I totally agree. I forgot to say that it's non selective.

@MargaretHooper I know someone who applied for a teaching role there in the last six months. Was told after they'd applied there was NO accommodation. And no subsidised or other options. They looked on Rightmove. Where there was practically NOTHING and what there was locally was expensive. Considered their options. Withdrew their application.

This was a highly qualified oxbridge graduate with a phd with masses of experience. They decided they couldn't afford the move there and went for a competitor that did offer accommodation.

The school didn't even ask why they withdrew 🙄

@GreyBow I think things have changed a lot in the last year with Covid.
The rental market seems to have dried up here at the mment. And people aren't able / happy to let rooms out the same way as before.

Following with interest as it's still on our shortlist, but similar to op the academic side really isn't impressing so far. Had never considered the staff accommodation aspect, makes sense. On the other hand the Perthshire independents seem to be recruiting and retaining some rising stars from all over the UK and RoW...

I am very much hoping some current parents will be able to add to the discussion...

Covid probably did affect the private rental market @MargaretHooper but more generally, I was surprised that all teachers weren't accommodated in school, like nearly all their main competitors. My DD is now boarding at a major competitor. Her teachers before Covid popped into boarding houses on an evening to help out with something academic if they needed it. There was a sense of purpose and community which all contribute towards academic success.

Schools that as a blanket thing don't accommodate their teaching staff, all their teaching staff, are going to be behind. Especially now with Covid. So much easier to have robust Covid safe rules when teachers aren't travelling in.

I've just had a look at the Good School Guide and they give the 2019 results as:

• GCSE 33% 9-7
• A'Level 26% A-A, 49% A-B

Their comment on the academics: "So they’re not firing them out by the dozen from the classroom straight into the quads of Cambridge or Oxford. But then that isn’t what Gordonstoun is about. They would argue that as a school which is largely non-selective and which takes a much less ‘traditional’ approach to education, they do remarkably well with the overwhelming majority of students meeting or exceeding their baseline predictions."

GreyBow - do you mean a major competitor locally/Scotland? Or a major competitor in the holistic, character education field?

As an ex boarding school teacher, I don't think the staff accommodation is a deal breaker for all good teachers. Many people would not expect to be offered this. There is a well known London day school that offers accommodation to new / younger staff and makes a great deal of attracting the brightest starts etc. It sounds great, especially where rents are really high but it doesn't really hide the reality that they have a very high staff turnover and that maybe why some schools offer it. Also, some teachers enjoy being off campus - boarding can be intense for staff especially if it becomes their whole social life. A new teacher may well meet a lot more different people locally if they live in a nearby town. I would say teachers are all different and its horses for courses. From what I can tell, the point of Gordonstoun is that it's offering something different and maybe that appeals to prospective staff as well as prospective pupils.

Thanks peoniesarejustperfect I feel that their results are quite low compared to other schools, but it shows the ability of some to achieve good marks, so presumably they can be taught to that level.

Hello! So I have two girls at Gordonstoun - both in the big exam Yeats. Eldest aiming for Russell Group uni with achievable offer as she is predicted A*AA and needs ABB. youngest working hard for GCSEs with amazing support and good nature from dedicated staff. I’m not going to pretend the place is perfect, my brother and sister educated their kids at Wellington Oundle and Harrow - and all wish they had attended Gordonstoun - because academic excellence is achievable if a child is at the stage in their life where they are interested in achieving it. And plenty to to Gordonstoun for all else that is on offer. I can’t speak for the staffing, Although it is a way north and I can imagine that causes problems. But again after much discussion with my siblings it seems that teachers are human! Some are inspirational and some are not the world over! So expectations have to be managed. The international element is balanced and definitely helps the social balance, the bursary and scholarship programme means there are students from across the socioeconomic board which also helps balance. It’s well worth considering. We looked at other schools for my youngest - who has been at Gordonstoun already for eight years and though a change would be good - but honesty couldn’t find a school which compared. Hand on heart. So she’s staying and happy to stay having looked elsewhere, and given Covid thank God. Hope you are all keeping well and that this is helpful. I dont do much on here but couldn’t resist piping up!

@Moraymum I will PM you!

@peoniesarejustperfect

I've just had a look at the Good School Guide and they give the 2019 results as:

• GCSE 33% 9-7
• A'Level 26% A-A, 49% A-B

Their comment on the academics: "So they’re not firing them out by the dozen from the classroom straight into the quads of Cambridge or Oxford. But then that isn’t what Gordonstoun is about. They would argue that as a school which is largely non-selective and which takes a much less ‘traditional’ approach to education, they do remarkably well with the overwhelming majority of students meeting or exceeding their baseline predictions."

GreyBow - do you mean a major competitor locally/Scotland? Or a major competitor in the holistic, character education field?

As an ex boarding school teacher, I don't think the staff accommodation is a deal breaker for all good teachers. Many people would not expect to be offered this. There is a well known London day school that offers accommodation to new / younger staff and makes a great deal of attracting the brightest starts etc. It sounds great, especially where rents are really high but it doesn't really hide the reality that they have a very high staff turnover and that maybe why some schools offer it. Also, some teachers enjoy being off campus - boarding can be intense for staff especially if it becomes their whole social life. A new teacher may well meet a lot more different people locally if they live in a nearby town. I would say teachers are all different and its horses for courses. From what I can tell, the point of Gordonstoun is that it's offering something different and maybe that appeals to prospective staff as well as prospective pupils.

@peoniesarejustperfect

"...they do remarkably well with the overwhelming majority of students meeting or exceeding their baseline predictions...."

I should hope so for the fat end of £38,000 a year .

Tonicwaterparty - don't say it out loud!!

MorayMum - thanks so much for posting - that is super helpful and for us very reassuring.

Hi just adding some comments to the thread as a current parent of DD who is currently is Year 9 at Gordonstoun. She has completed 6 years at the junior school and couldn't wait to move on to senior school. She has embraced the diverse backgrounds amongst the girls and boys in the boarding houses and mix of day pupils from the local area and is genuinely happy. When we decided to send her to the school our main criteria as a family involved 'will this place be real, will it be edgy and current, will it be genuine and not fake, will it allow her to believe in herself and flourish in this pressurised world, will it get her outside into the incredible wild Scottish landscape, will it give her staying power and teach her not to give up.....there are so many TED talks talking about what's missing with so many young people starting out today and they go on to suggest 'Grit!!'....you can have all the talent and intelligence in the world but if you don't have staying power the potential for 'course' or 'career' hopping is immense. It is just our own opinion obviously and as parents we absolutely believe that the grounding and firing up of passion whatever subject/area that may lie within - is key. As far as we are concerned Gordonstoun 'gets' that and puts down the foundations for each individual child. If they are keen to succeed academically the school certainly has the dedicated teaching staff to allow this to happen - if the child - not only the parents are committed enough. A friend's son who wanted to be a doctor became a doctor. It is not an academic hothouse - thank goodness... competing and trying to outdo one another...if they want to succeed and work hard, they will.
Teachers are housed in a mix on campus and locally within villages many of whom cycle...they play an important part in the local community and enjoy getting out and about to the incredible beaches and Moray Firth nearbye or within 45 minutes the Cairngorm mountain ranges. This school will never attract teachers who are slightly afraid of coming out of their comfort zone - I don't know all the teachers however amongst those I've had some contact with - there are amazing hard-working individuals who are so easy to talk to and 'down to earth' which is so important.
Please feel free to message me and if I can help I'll certainly try.

Thank you. I have sent a PM!

Hi, sorry coming a bit late to this but feel it is worth it. My children left within the last couple of years and both left with a mixture of A*s and As and are now at Russell group universities. Both are bright and worked hard so suited the school and were able to balance the demands on their time. We knew that Gordonstoun from the outset is broad in its selection and not just purely academically selective – this was really important to us.

Gordonstoun said they would fulfil our children's academic potential and they did, whilst offering an incredibly broad selection of out of class room learning which our kids really benefitted from and are reaping the benefits of it especially now in Covid times

Thinking about the staff, they appear to really buy into the ethos of the school. Our children have been at previous schools where the ethos was very "undefined", but with Gordonstoun you really get the feeling that it is embedded in all aspects of school life. Can't really comment about the attractiveness of location or salary, there are so many other contributory factors influencing a job decision surely, I wouldn’t over focus on that one. I do think however there may be a school fee reeducation for staff families which would off-set a housing allowance anyway, so you can never really isolate one criteria surely to make a judgement.
Sorry if this is waffling on, hope this has been of some use, keep safe all

That is so helpful to hear from ex and current parents, thank you! I hope you don't mind but I have PM'd you.