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Original poster

Testing to start school early?

28 replies

Wallace · 28/09/2004 16:10

I have just found out that a little girl in my dd's nursery is being tested to see if she can start school a year early (her mum's idea not the school's!). She was 4 in June so would not normally start school til next August (we are in Scotland), but if she passes this test she will be going straight into Primary One, even though it is almost the end of the first term.
I cannot imagine why anyone would want to send their child to school early! They are little for such a short time anyway...This girl is not especially bright, though her mum thinks she is (don't we all ), neither is she mature for her age. Does anyone know what they test for? Is it what they can do academically, or how they would cope in a school environment?

OP posts:
charlize · 28/09/2004 17:09

Not sure, wallace. But in England any child who was 4 in June would have started school already this September.
Why does the mum want to send her early?
My ds was v advanced and could read before starting school but I never considered trying to send him early even tho he is september born was the oldest in his class.

coppertop · 28/09/2004 18:02

Ds1 was 4 in June and started school earlier this month. (We're in England). He's a bright boy and his teacher has already told me that in many ways he is very mature for his age. However, if we were in Scotland there is no way I would have been pushing for him to start school early.

When I was at school I went straight from Reception to what is now Yr2. The work was more challenging but in every other way I hated being there. The other children in the class were 6 or 7yrs old and had no interest in a child who had only just turned 5. Being allowed to move back with my peer group the following year was the best news I'd ever had. It meant that I effectively repeated Yr2 but to me it was worth it.

tamum · 28/09/2004 18:17

Completely mad IMHO. If she goes she could be easily 18 months younger than the oldest children in the class which is a vast difference at this age. It's just so unfair of the mother. I have to say I had no idea this was legal in Scotland, I've never come across it before! Even if she can cope academically, if she finds it hard to cope socially it could completely backfire.

suedonim · 28/09/2004 21:54

I'm also surprised at this, Wallace. We're in Aberdeenshire and we enquired about our dd starting school early, as she missed the cut off date by a week. The answer was an out-and-out no; no exceptions, no special cases. Maybe it varies by Education Authority, though.

Gomez · 28/09/2004 22:27

As far as I understand it you can make a request to your local council to have your child assessed if you believe there is a need for them to start school earlier. It is almost never agreed to. It maybe that this parent has been refused and as such is taking it further - i.e formal assessment. Given the 'normal' cut of is the end of Feb I don't fancy her chances much. Nor do I understand why she would want to go down this route. Our nursery suggested that we should consider this route for DD1 (who was 4 in May)and we ran a mile in the opposite direction. Yeah she is bright but emtionally/socially absolutely no way!

Conversly a large number of parents whose childrens birthdays fall in Jan/Feb are taking advantage of the option to 'keep them back' a year so to speak as they believe (and I agree) that the older they are when they start school the better for sure!!

(Obvioulsy DD doesn't take after me as I am sure her spelling and grammar are much better than mine at this particular time - please excuse!)

Demented · 28/09/2004 22:34

IMO weird but I am in the came Gomez talks about who have decided to keep their children back a year, my DS1 has just started at 5 1/2. As you said they are only little for such a short time and I'm sure there are so many things this Mum could do with her DD that there won't be time for once School starts, if she was really keen she could find out about the reading/maths system the School uses and start gently introducing letters/numbers (although I am personally of the opinion that this is best left to the School).

marialuisa · 29/09/2004 08:37

We were offered the option of starting DD in reception a year early but after long conversations and some great advice from a MNer (thanks Roisin!) we decided to keep her in the pre-school section. The school is giving her things to do that she's interested in but it's all very relaxed, nothing brought home etc. From a social/emotional point of view there is no way that DD could have coped with the "step-up" , esp as little girls can be pretty unpleasant at times.

susanmt · 29/09/2004 11:09

I've never heard of this happening Wallace (I'm in Scotland too). My dd was 4 in Feb and could have just started but we are taking the great opportunity to keep her until 5.5, next August.
Sounds like the Mum has some issues about her daughter.

Original poster
Wallace · 29/09/2004 11:14

I was talking to my mum about this and she was saying that when my sister (now 20!) started school 2 children were tested and alllowed to start early. Unfortunately for them they both got kept back at the end of the year and had to repeat P1...

Another boy was also tested from the same class as this girl (he missed the cut off date by 2 weeks). He failed. Funnily enough he just happens to be the son of this girl's dad's new partner (if you follow me) so that might have something to do with it...eg "You might have my man but my kid is better than yours".

Poor little girl, I hope for her sake that she gets to spend this last year at nursery

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tiredemma · 29/09/2004 11:51

its not something id jump at tbh, id rather my kids be around children their own age, she may academically be able to work like a 5 year old but emotionally? i doubt it.

by the way wallace, how is college going? mine is great, i love the course and am reveling in the fact that i actually seem to have a brain!

Original poster
Wallace · 29/09/2004 19:31

Yup, I am more of the better to start later than early bunch.

Thanks for asking tiredemma. I am enjoying it, but finding it quite tricky to get into the swing of things...Are you doing one day a week? Glad you are enjoying it

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stupidgirl · 29/09/2004 20:07

I got the school admissions stuff for my dd last week. She will be 4 in April and apparently she can start that summer term - when she would be literally just turned 4.

It's a tough decision - do you let them start early because all their friends are starting early or do you keep them back? I;m so glad I don't have to face that decision - mine are HE'd.

Original poster
Wallace · 30/09/2004 17:51

Apparently the girl passed With flying colours, and the tester will be recommending that she starts school...
I think the test may have shown her good parts, eg confident and chatty, not her bad parts such as she thinks that to get what you want you have to stamp your feet and scream loudly

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Original poster
Wallace · 30/09/2004 17:54

I know what you mean stupidgirl..It is a tough decision (one I am glad I dodn't have to make) I think I would start them later, at that age they do easily make new friends.

A question for those of you in England. If you choose NOT to start your child in reception at the age of 4, is it true that the next year they start straight into Year 1?

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roisin · 30/09/2004 18:02

Yes, Wallace, they go straight into yr1 (if you can find a school with a space). To swap years in England in either direction is quite unusual.

coppertop · 30/09/2004 18:07

I just don't understand what's to be gained by starting this child at school a year early. Surely if she's exceptionally bright then marialuisa's plan is far more sensible? Keep them with their peer group but give them different/extra work to stretch them if need be.

I don't know how the Scottish system works but what happens if she does her GCSE equivalent and decides she wants to leave? Would she be able to if she's underage? Even though the primary school is prepared to take her early it may not necessarily follow that her secondary school will be as willing. I know that my secondary school was not keen on the idea of taking a 10 year-old if I'd stayed with the older year group.

AFAIK in England if you keep your child back a year then yes they do go straight into Yr1. It's something to do with Reception not being compulsory I think.

Original poster
Wallace · 30/09/2004 18:36

Yes when she does her Standard Grades (GCSE) she will not quite have turned 15. I think she would have to stay on at school until she turned 16. And imagine if she goes to uni she wouldn't even be old enough to drink, which takes the fun out of it a bit ;)

I think the idea of keeping a bright child with their peers and giving them extra work is a far more sensible idea.
I think one of the problems with this girl going to school (apart from the emotional and social difficulties she may have) is that this girl is probably only averagly bright, but her mum has got the idea into her head that she is very bright, when the stuff she is doing (learning numbers & letters, drawing pictures etc) is normal 4 year old stuff...

What really bugs me is that we are never going to hear the end of it. Another mother was brave enough to ask this mum why she was putting her dd at such a disadvantage. She replied along the lines of "Disadvantage? What do you mean disadvantage? I giving her a huge advantage"

I rest my case.

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oxocube · 30/09/2004 18:40

Our dd has her birthday at the end of October. We live in Holland where the cut off date for the academic year is between September and the end of October depending on the child. Dd was put into a class where some kids were only a few months older than her but most were at least 8 months older and she really struggled. She is quite bright, confident and happy but certainly not academically gifted (except at winding up her mummy ), and we made the decision to let her repeat the previous year. She is now doing so much better at school and is happier than last year. Personally, I don't think there is much to be gained by pushing children beyond their peers. My dd mixes with local kids, speaks excellent Dutch unlike most of the other kids in her class, goes to loads of local dance and sporty things which she loves and to me, this is more important than her being 'top of the class' or in a higher group than her peers. Personally, I am always a little suspicious of the parents' motives in cases such as the child in Wallace's thread. Are the interests of the child really at heart or is it more the status of having a child recognised as 'gifted' which gives the parents a kick?

LIZS · 30/09/2004 18:53

Wallace

dd would turn 4 next August. She can start Recpetion in September at aged 4 and 1 week +/- a few days. We could theoretically hold her back until the term after she turned 5 ie a full year but would still go into year 1 and places may be harder to come by at the "better" schools. I'm less worried about the academic side as she seems pretty on the ball but she is tiny and I am a bit concerned she may be less adept socially than the others.

I'm surprised the girls' mother has left it so late to get this assessment done if she felt that strongly that her daughter was ready. I wouldn't have thought it would do her dd any favours both to be the youngest and to start later than the others, unless she already has friends there to help her integrate and the full confidence of the teacher in her ability to cope.

suedonim · 30/09/2004 22:42

You know, when you think it through, all starting school early means is that you end up working an extra year of your life until you're 65.

charlize · 01/10/2004 12:38

I think this is a bit strange and the mother hasn;t really thought this through.
Now her dd will be the youngest in the class by quite a bit and very probably no where near as ahead as the brighttest in that class. Whereas if she kept this girl with her peers she would probably be top of the class and mother could lord it over everyone so much more.
When she realises this I bet her dd will go back to being with her peers. Possibly reapet reception yr with the extra advantage of a yr in school already she will clearly be the top.

throckenholt · 01/10/2004 12:58

I think it doesnt matter how bright htey are - they get really tired at that age and just aren't physically up to school.

nikkim · 01/10/2004 23:25

It is late and I have been revising all night but I thought they started school during the academic year they were five.

So my dd who was born on Sep 16th 2001 will be five in September 2006 so will start school then. Yet some of your children are starting just after they are four.

As a teacher ( of secondary though) I am a bit embaressed to be confused by this!

tamum · 01/10/2004 23:37

That's because your dd has a September birthday, nikkim- if she'd been born in August she would be starting school just after her fourth birthday, like others on here.

The reason a lot of us are being so down on this situation is that we (and the girl in question) are in Scotland, where the cut-off is February. this means that the very youngest children are 4 and a half, and because it's is completely straightforward to hold children back a year if they aren't already 5 when the school year starts, the oldest children in the class can be nearly 6, so a very big age gap compared with this 4-and-a-bit year old.

Hope that's helped

nikkim · 02/10/2004 00:11

Of course Tanum

I can remember when I went to primary school there was two intakes - September and Easter.

I discussed this topic with my dp frequently as we have a september born child who is very clever ( I know we all say it but I am right ) and socially confident and mature and Ia nd her nursery superviser agree that Sep 06 is just too late for her starting school as she will be ready well before that and most of her friends will have moved from the nursery to the main school.

However my sister who was an august baby started school after just turning four ( another reason I am a tad embarressed for my previous question ) and she really struggled both in starting school and all the way through her school career not just academicallly but more importantly socially as she was just so much younger than the others, this wasn't helped by her being the pampered baby of the family.

As a teacher one of the stats I kept in my records was whether the puil was a summer baby as even in secondary school those who were early starters at school were more likely to lag behind their classmates.