Might seem like a bizarre question, but..

[BillyBanana]

Does it matter how good a school is? Especially secondary schools? I went to a Private school, and I have nothing to compare it with, however, my husband is rather keen that we send our girls to the best schools possible (can't afford private for 2 kids so it'd have to be state). To the point that he's willing to move areas, pay for a house near the best school even though you'd get wayyy more for your money where we are (south Hampshire), all for the sake of a good education.

However, I wonder if education would really mean your child will have a bright future? If my kids were below average in academics, then no matter where I send them, it won't help them. On the other hand, my husband was a college drop-out, and he's earning more than I am, while with 3 university degrees, I'm a good 20K less than him. So, I feel it's all down to your aptitude, how ambitious you are, how career-driven you are, and with a bit of luck of being at the right place at the right time.

What do you all think? Is it worth uprooting our family from an area we've known for the last 12 years to go to another, with top-notch schools just so our children could get the best education possible? Please help.

But if you are in South Hants, aren't your local schools pretty good already? Hants is generally good from what I have read. (We are Romsey but I get the impression that there aren't many poor schools around.)

I see the point in moving from a dire area, but not from somewhere with pretty good schools already.

I wouldn't be too worried if the choice was between an excellent and a good school - but I would avoid a failing school! I would also look for a school which was keen on promoting excellence and helping all students to achieve well (something my school didn't do). I got top marks at state schools but almost all of my friends who went to private schools did less well on grades but got better, higher-paying careers. Make of that what you will!

I did some work experience in what was seen as a very rough school, can't recall the Ofsted rating. What struck me was the commitment to treating each child as an individual, and to ensuring that even those with the lowest ability came out with a certain level of key skills, and a plan for the future. I was really impressed, and if my child was below average I'd rather have them somewhere like that.

I would look at each school and what they can offer individually. Results, Ofsted reports etc just don't give a full picture.

It depends. The school my friends' children went to was inadequate. The knock on effect was no one wanted to send a child there, think 40 intake not 200. Better educated parents avoided it like the plague (found religion or grammar in next town) So no money for teachers, staff left and not replaced. Hardly any similar ability peers. The school closed earlier this year but they regret it.
No matter how ambitious you are or how much aptitude you have if you are the only potential A grade student in a class with C/D students and no proper teacher for 3 years you will struggle.

Thanks for your reply. You're right, there are some nice primary schools (we live in a suburban village near Southampton) here but not outstanding secondary schools. At least not along the lines of the ones in North Hampshire, like Thornden, Kings and Perins.
Also, coming from a quiet, sleepy village, I am scared of the city life, haha, as most of these schools except Perins are in or near cities.

I always wondered about the mad rush for the top schools. And if it was all really worth the hype. I would like my girls to do well in university and in their lives, in general, but them getting better-paid jobs if they went to top-notch schools, means it'd help if we moved. It's just so annoying as it's a vicious circle of the haves and have-nots.

Winchester may be a city - but it is nothing like e.g. Birmingham!

Neither of the two in my town (Romsey School & Mountbatten) are classified as 'Outstanding' but they are both pretty damn good. Our DDs could in theory have gone to any school we liked we could get them to (as they are adopted so get preference) but I saw no reason to look outside of our two local options.

If your only options are inadequate then I would consider moving. I guess it depends which schools are realistic options.

There are quite a lot of Hants parents around, they tend to come out of the woodwork when 6th forms get discussed. If you posted in Secondary naming the schools/area I'm pretty sure you would get views on the specific schools.

Thornden isn't in a city!! And Kings has lots of villages in catchment (as does Westgate, Henry B etc). If you're near a good school, with happy kids and access to a strong 6th form college then you're sorted. I've been a supply teacher in a couple of schools in Southampton and Portsmouth that I definitely would avoid though - serious managerial and behavioural problems leading to underperformance (and a miserable few years) for all kids. Remember if you do move into a more expensive catchment, you don't have to stay there for ever!

I went to an excellent private school (in Birmingham in fact) and I have also worked in 'outstanding' and 'good' state secondaries. There is a huge difference. Outstanding doesn't mean it is necessarily going to be outstanding for your individual child.
I think (from memory, so prepared to be corrected) the research shows that how you achieve at school, in exams etc. depends on the quality of teaching you receive - but how you achieve in life depends on your parents' socioeconomic status.

I agree with this:
*No matter how ambitious you are or how much aptitude you have if you are the only potential A grade student in a class with C/D students and no proper teacher for 3 years you will struggle

Mijkl But there is no reason to suppose the OP's schools will be like that. The comp system in Hants means that the best aren't creamed off to Grammar school. Also, because the comps are pretty good on average, I get the impression there are fewer private schools round here because there just isn't the general demand.

OP - out yourself and post the schools

ps Romsey School takes ~50% from out of catchment, and has its open evening tomorrow.

*No matter how ambitious you are or how much aptitude you have if you are the only potential A grade student in a class with C/D students and no proper teacher for 3 years you will struggle

Going on from that, No matter how ambitious you are or how much aptitude you have, if you are a C/D student or B even in a school with no teacher for 3years you will ultimately fail. Its not just the A grade students that matter.

I think there are:
bad schools
good schools
amazing schools, but usually in some particular thing, eg music.
I would actively avoid bad schools,
I would only want the amazing school if my dc fitted their niche

if you live near some good schools, then they are all fine, and it really it then comes down to your kids.

I have one who is very peer influenced and would not work if it wasn't 'cool' It was important to us to find a school where it was cool to be clever.

But dc2 is very studious, but quiet, far more important for her was to find a school where she would flourish emotionally, as she will work hard where ever she is.

A school which is amazing for one personality may be crap for another. It isn;t set in stone.

If my kids were below average in academics, then no matter where I send them, it won't help them.

I disagree with this, my DS went to a really good outstanding school and achieved really well as did the boys and girls in his year that really struggled, they had a really good SEN department. Whereas I went to a terrible school a long long time ago and everyone did badly the academic DC and the ones who struggled.

But at least after school the academic DC were bright enough to do ok, the ones who struggled did not really had a chance.

The OP's DH wants 'the best' though.

What is unclear is what their local offer is like. I wouldn't move to get Thornden over other schools in Romsey / Winchester area. But if my local offer was poorly performing, then I would move if affordable to an area with better (not necessarily 'the best') options.

Menalight
Indeed most did fail, 6 children in the whole year made the grades to take A levels and that was with the 6th form college accepting lower grades for pupils from that school. This was 2016.

Dixie That's really sad. Its gets tiring listening to people harping on about 'bright' children as if they are the only ones that matter, the shit school will be all right if its not an 'A' student, the insinuation being they were bound to fail anyway .

A bad school is a bad school, it doesn't matter wether its a high, middle or low achiever child. Every child is entitled to a good school.

If my kids were below average in academics, then no matter where I send them, it won't help them.

I don't get this thinking either Tinty.
Why is it that an 'A' student can be helped by going to a very good school BUT for an average child, it won't make a difference? @Billy

Thank you all so much for your responses. I'll try to respond to all of them, so forgive me if I missed something someone asked :)
The Primary schools where I live, are "outstanding" and "good" predominantly. Also, I take the Ofsted rating with a pinch of salt anyway, as a school can be rated outstanding one year, and the next, it can not be as good, but the inspection wouldn't happen for another 5 years at least? I think my question was more to do with secondary schools as they are considered the "stepping stones" to good universities. Going by the last two years' results, husband was quite keen on Thornden, or Kings/Westgate (although, hilariously, the girls are only 3 and 1, and he's planning so far in advance). It also doesn't help that in his department, he works with people who have PhDs from Cambridge, and he feels less adequate, and laments about having taken his education for granted, or not going to university. So I think he's being very thorough about not leaving anything to chance, when it comes to their education.

@TheLesserWeevil, yes, I know Thornden isn't in a city :) I did say "near cities"; and in comparison to where I live, CF/Hiltingbury does seem like a city as it's quite built-up. :)

@ TeenTimesTwo - The schools in our catchment and surrounding areas are Henry Cort College, and Brookfields School. Husband went to Cams Hill when it was doing really well, around 20 years ago. Now, it's failing quite a bit, from what he's heard. He also went to Peter Symonds college in Winchester, hence his penchant for the Winchester schools as he'd like the girls to go to PS, like him and his sister.

@Menalight - Sorry, I think I didn't phrase it right, or you misinterpreted my words :) I was trying to say that, if a child has no aptitude for academics, or if they are just not bright enough, you can't simply send them to a great school or get them great tutoring just so they perform better. Intelligence is subjective, but with the current education style, the ability of students to ingest information and spout it out is still paramount. My husband was not academic at all, and he's much cleverer than I am. I have two Masters, and highly academic, but I'm hopeless with "intelligence", haha

@ steppemum - thank you for your reply. It did put things into perspective a little. From what I understand, some schools are "pushy" and they can get quite demanding with good grades? If my girls are not that kind, it might actually end up stressing them out. So maybe it's worth waiting to see how they fare in the first 2-3 years at school, to see what kind of personality they'd possess to thrive in a school, and then decide from there?
Annoyingly, we really do need to move home. But we can't move yet, because the girls are so young, we don't know what kind of schools would suit them. And going by husband's past experience, if we ended up moving to, say, Thornden's catchment, and within 10 years, the school's performance plummets, then I'm stuck in a house I paid 100K more for, and no one else wants to buy as they don't want to be in that school's catchment either!

Bottom line, mommas, is that -

If you could afford to move to the catchment area of the "best school" around, would you do it?! As in, a house move is life-changing for everyone, right? So would you do that JUST for a child's education? Or would you take a chance, stay where you are, send them to an average or good-enough school, and hope for the best?

There are many factors that influence how well a person does in school and beyond. A great or terrible school can be quite an influence, but sometimes it can be an academic school that just does not work for your child, or a 'bad' school where a teacher manages to inspire their pupils.

There's also loads of things like how educated parents are, their parenting skills, money, support. Health (mental & physical) makes a difference; social integration/happiness; resources at the school; where they live; the person they marry; who their boss is etc etc.

So yes, you can control some of those factors, but don't put all your faith into a particular school or area.

3 and 1 ?

I don't know those schools at all, but a quick look shows their results seem quite good, though a lot can change in the next 8 years. It would be quite a trek from you to Symonds though (plus who knows how academic your DC will turn out to be in 14 years time ).

Schools can go up and down quite a lot in 10 years, it only takes a head to change for things to improve or deteriorate.

Make sure you look at 'added value' / 'progress 8' not just 'headline results', as e.g. in Winchester some people 'self select' in or out of Kings which might skew its results.

You also need to factor in overall quality of life. If you are working in Fareham you quite possibly don't want to be stuck commuting along the M3/M27 every day.

Your children may turn out to have SpLD, in which case what you look for from a school may be different.

Best of luck with your deliberations.

If you have a competent local comprehensive with a good mix of kids, a happy atmosphere and reasonable behaviour, you will be fine.

I would avoid the new ‘zero tolerance ‘ boot camp style academies, schools where the vast majority of intake is from high density inner city estates with high unemployment and a gang issue (and actually the S London schools like this that I know do a great job with many pupils and overall) or an unambiguous floppy leadership in an area of coastal / rural isolation and deprivation (e.g some schools in Norfolk).

There is an unecessary competitive feeding frenzy over a few schools deemed ‘the best’. A reputation Often fuelled by the parents who got a place, rather than actual evidence. And the high stats scores are underpinned by the ability of the cohort plus tutoring by pushy parents!