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Original poster

Pupil premium...can someone explain this, please..

40 replies

Misfitless · 01/12/2013 20:49

I've just read on another thread that if a child at any point in their education has been entitled to free school dinners, then this automatically means they are exempt from paying for school trips.

I've paraphrased this, and not sure if this is accurate or not. Can someone clear this up for me, please?
TIA

OP posts:
MirandaWest · 01/12/2013 20:51

I've never heard that one.

My DC had free school meals very briefly when XH and I first split and before I was working enough hours to get WTC. Does that mean that the school gets pupil premium for them? I can pay for school trips so I do.

TooTiredToBeCreative · 01/12/2013 20:55

The school receives PP for children who have FSM. This is extra funding to be spent on those children to enhance their education and "close the gap" (typically children on FSM don't do as well as their peers) Schools can spend PP as they see fit, as long as it directly benefits those children. This may include funding school trips. I dont think they become exempt from paying for school trips exactly but the school is likely to agree to fund it if the parent cant pay. Schools are required to have a breakdown of what PP has been spent on, on their websites.

MirandaWest · 01/12/2013 21:04

So is pupil premium there for children who have had fsm at some point in the last 6(?) years?

NorthernShores · 01/12/2013 21:08

We had fsm for a few weeks as I was under the impression the school then got the premium for several years.

Now we are no longer eligible for fsm ourselves though I didn't think the money directly tracked to us? (Would be useful if it did!)

sittinginthesun · 01/12/2013 21:12

Haven't got the info in front of me, but PP is now payable to the school if a pupil has been on FSM at anytime in the past 6 years.

It is paid to the school, they choose how to spend it, no say from the parent, and the school have to be able to demonstrate that it has improved standards etc in the FSM group of children.

So it can be a trip, if the child would not otherwise have gone, breakfast club, if a child is not being fed/getting to school on time, or extra teachers/assistants in class.

MirandaWest · 01/12/2013 21:13

I looked at the DCs schools website and it shows how much PP they got in 2011/12 and 2012/13. Figure is higher for 2012/13 as it is now for children who have had FSM in the last 6 years.

Having seen how it is used I am glad it is there but it isn't needed off my DC and I can tell they don't access what it is being used for IYSWIM. Is it meant to attach to children who have had FSM?

If it's for any children who've had FSM in the last 6 years presumably some have left that school. Could more than one school both get PP for the same child?

MirandaWest · 01/12/2013 21:16

So will my DC be tracked as FSM children and they need to improve due to that (I obviously hope they improve anyway :))

Ruprekt · 01/12/2013 21:16

Children on fsm are entitled to free school trips.

Sam100 · 01/12/2013 21:17

PP can be claimed by a school if a child has been on FSM at some stage in the previous 6 years. It is at the school's discretion as to how that money is spent. Some of it may well be used to fund school trips for kids that could not otherwise go - but it is not a requirement. Sometimes it might be spent on additional teaching resources so that kids can be taken out of the main class to work in focus groups and improve numeracy or literacy. Sometimes it might be used to fund music lessons for a FSM child with a talent that could otherwise not develop. It is really down to the school. But they do have to produce an annual report to detail how the money has been spent.

lougle · 01/12/2013 21:20

Yes, it's called 'Ever6 FSM' - in other words, if the child has ever had free school meals, for even a day, in the previous 6 years, the school gets a premium of £900 for that child, for that year.

Service children attract a £250 premium per child.

Children who have been in care for 6 months plus get a premium of £900. From April 2014, any child in care, who has left care under adoption or Special Guardianship Order will attract a £1900 Premium plus.

sittinginthesun · 01/12/2013 21:22

I think it follows the child - so if a child leaves the school, the pp follow. I think.

ShoeWhore · 01/12/2013 21:23

Miranda the school gets pupil premium funding for any child who has been entitled to FSM in the last 6 years (sometimes called Ever6 FSM) but the funding follows the child so only the school they are currently at gets it.

Schools can spend the money as they see fit but are required to demonstrate that they are "closing the gap" between PP children and non-PP children. Many schools use some of the money to subsidise school trips but there is no requirement to do so.

Talkinpeace · 01/12/2013 21:29

Pupil Premium can be used for essential to the curriculum trips

so going to see a play as part of English : yup, the PP will cover it
going skating as a christmas jolly : your problem

on each permission slip there will be a box to tick if its a PP eligible outing and you can ask that the PP covers it
but that it ONLY ONLY if you get PP and its a relevant trip

schools have to account for their use of PP to ofsted

Original poster
Misfitless · 01/12/2013 21:36

Thanks everyone. That's really helpful.

OP posts:
ravenAK · 01/12/2013 21:36

I organise lots of trips at the school where I teach.

I have a list of kids who attract PP, & we usually offer them a 50% discount on trips. I have to fill in a funding request which is (usually) approved by the member of Senior Leadership Group who is responsible for PP - I'm expected to make out a case for it having an educational impact, so theatre or overseas trips are fine, but something like a random theme park jolly would be harder to argue.

The money is also spent on things like 1-1 tutoring in English & Maths - not necessarily exclusively for the students on the PP list, but Ofsted would again need us to show that they were benefitting from it.

MirandaWest · 01/12/2013 22:02

I'm glad it can only be used in one school at once.

I've never been told by school about the pupil premium in terms of it applying to my DC. And trips just say that if you have a problem paying to speak to the school - doesn't mention PP.

My DC are possibly unusual in that there doesn't seem to be a gap in terms of attainment between them and non PP children so I'm not sure how the school could show the gap has been lowered. There's a low percentage of children who have FSM at their school so each child would be quite big percentage wise.

NorthernShores · 01/12/2013 22:10

I understand current pupils eligible for fsm being offered reduced trips etc, and the PP going ino the "pot".

However, as we are someone who has had fsm in the last 6 years (recently) surely we can't tick that box anymore as we are no longer eligible?

NorthernShores · 01/12/2013 22:11

( I suspect we muck their statistics up anyway, child is a highflyer as she ought to be - well educated parents etc).

I was very much under the impression the pp went into a general pot that could be used at the schools discretion? I'm not sure my daughter would benefit from any help to low ability children for example but I'm happy for the money to go where its needed.

Bradsplit · 01/12/2013 22:12

Anyone who's claimed certain benefits in the previous five years. I thought. School need to account for it. More than "we've employed mrs x". It's got to show direct impact.

Bradsplit · 01/12/2013 22:13

Miranda. Your school sounds a bit disorganised.

Ask them where it is. OFSTED will also ask

Bradsplit · 01/12/2013 22:14

Oh. What everyone else said. It's 6 years

Talkinpeace · 01/12/2013 22:22

NB
the PP does not have to be spent on your child
it has to be spent on supporting your child which might even involve throwing resources at removing the disruptive kid so that your one can relax and excel
schools have to justify it, but are allowed to think laterally

AngelsWithSilverWings · 01/12/2013 22:32

I'd love to know what my children's school will do with the extra money they will get from April.

Both my DCs are adopted and will attract pupil premium from April. The school is in a very affluent area and gets the lowest pupil premium funding in the whole borough.

I don't think the pupil premium will make any huge difference to my DCs and I assume it will just be absorbed into the schools budget?

Talkinpeace · 01/12/2013 22:34

Angels you have the right to ask - but chances are that 20% uplift in funding for your kids will help

ravenAK · 01/12/2013 22:35

Ofsted will ask: 'How are you spending your PP budget? How has this had an impact?'

Just parking it with the general school's budget wouldn't be the answer they're looking for!