able children: does comparative data exist?

[gramercy]

Just wondered if anyone had any info.

The dc's schools give their National Curriculum levels and the average levels of pupils nationally and in the county. None of this information is particularly illuminating.

Can one find out at what level the top few per cent of children nationally are performing? I don't suppose there is data which includes privately-educated children.

Before anyone says "What does it matter? As long as they are performing to the best of their ability/reaching their targets etc etc... " I think it is important to know what the situation is outside one's small pond.

There is this but I'm not sure if it's what you are looking for.

The Characteristics of High Attainers:
www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SBU/b000731/index.shtml

It is 125 pages long so the answers may be in there somewhere!

Thanks v much for that. I've just read quite a bit of it.

I was a bit at the assertion that higher attaining pupils in Year 9 liked the subjects PE and Art the best. Never heard of that one! In my experience it's the exact opposite.

That research makes me wonder if there is some kind of issue with primary school teaching not being as effective as secondary school teaching with various minority groups. The odds of a lot of groups being in the high attainers group at KS4 is so much higher than at KS2.

gramercy, it's a well known fact that high-aceivers often like Art and creative subjects. Academic subjects at school can get bogged down in the mundane. If a child learns something interesting and tries to explore and expand upon it, they are often told "that's not on the curriculum" or "we don't have time for that" or, if they are lucky, "see me afterwards, that doesn't fit with what the rest of the class are doing". However, in arts and crafts subject there is not the same constraint. The teacher may set a subject and the weaker pupils will come back with a child-like drawing whereas the higher attaining have got free licence to come back with the most amazing, imaginative, all-singing-all-dancing, 3D creation (complete with notes and references and cataloguing of the process). They like creative subjects because they are given praise for and encouraged to go 'above and beyond' instead of being put down for it.

I agree with you that I'm not so sure about PE, though. I would have thought that music featured.

My ds has actually signed up for needlework (well, Textiles as it is now called) and is excited about making some pyjama bottoms. He was the only boy in the year who chose this option and the only boy who didn't choose Computing. But PE...

Ive been doing a lot of research of curriculums and levels and have come to the conclusion that when children are given a Level 5 at primary school that they are only just skimming the surface of a Level 5. (obviously there are exceptions with the top end of children.)
I have found research in the past that gives you exactly what you are looking for, but sadly I no longer have the link, but it is out there. I am sure I found it on the OECD site through link after link

Thank you - I had a look but after a lot of clicking gave up!

I can only think that the pass mark for Level 5 must be 20% or that the tests are extremely easy, judging by the number and range of children who achieve this.

I can only think that the pass mark for Level 5 must be 20% or that the tests are extremely easy, judging by the number and range of children who achieve this.

67% + English
77% + Maths
last year as it varies
www.qcda.gov.uk/resources/assets/NCT-Threshold-Tables.zip

You can look at past tests here and here