Family Courts agreement to relocating within U.K. Possible?

[MsCalamityJayne]

Posted in 30 days but realised this will be more suitable.

Can people please tell me their experiences of the family courts involving an application by ‘resident’ parent to relocate with DCs?

I am divorced, engaged. Fiancé lives a 3.5 he drive away. I have two DCs under 10. He has residence of 3 DC under 10. He has more family support available to him than I do. He has a well paid solid job, I don’t.

We had planned to wait before relocating if necessary. We make things work and we’re happy.

But I’m pregnant.

I can’t do this on my own.

If I have to I will. But I’m scared.

My DCs are with their father less than 1.5 days a week on average. This is much less than he was offered. It is largely his choice. CAFCASS also had to be involved.

What are my chances?

Why is it in your 2 children's best interests for you to move?

How are you going to ensure they see their dad every other weekend?

Well, you'd need to persuade the court that it is in the children's best interests to be uprooted from their current lives, and either have their relationship with their father significantly weakened, or travel 7 hours regularly to see him. So that you can live with your fiancè. Do you truly believe that this is in their best interests?

Because otherwise we are going to be very very poor

2 DCs, a baby, basically a single parent, no local family support.

Maybe I’m just not as good at this as other people but I don’t understand how I’m suppose to live, financially. I’m on universal credit and running my small business as it is and I’m struggling to afford basic stuff. There’s no extra. I have no one to do things like school drop offs of have baby for a day etc. It’s just me here. Their dad has them absolute minimum. Not even that.

If we move and our currently separate family comes together there will be more money, more time, more options.

And I would drive them EOW. Or maybe exchange fewer weekends for more holiday time.

A judge will likely judge that the children's relationship with their father is more important than money.
A regular day a week is hugely important, holiday time isn't the same. Holiday time becomes a friendly stranger as opposed to someone seeing the little changes each week.
With a new born you won't want to make the drive regularly it will tire you out.
What about when they get older and have friends and things they need to do on the weekends? Being far means they have to pick friends vs dad and dad doesn't see them.
Also if you have children under 10, then I'm assuming at least one of them is school age, they'll be changing schools and loosing their friends and support network and dad.
At the end of the day you chose to get pregnant with someone who lives far away. You shouldn't get to harm their relationship with their father due to your choices or financial concerns. Moving benefits you and the new baby more than your older children who loose a lot.

These responses are so harsh, I'm so op you seem stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Is there no way your fiancé could move to you?

• so sorry.

They will gain a steady, supportive family home environment instead of a single struggling mother and a father who CHOSES not to see them more than 2 nights EOW and not even close to the 2 weeks the court ordered him to have them over school holidays.

I wonder if MN view would be different if I said he doesn’t have them overnight on school nights following CAFCASS recommendation due to abusive behaviour?

I appreciate the feedback. Clearly this is going to be damn near impossible. But please don’t judge me

Thank you Swiss. He has his 3 DCs near enough all of the time. It’s a lose arrangement because basically their mother is a flake (sorry, has genuine undiagnosed issues) and will decide on a whim she can’t have them etc. Also his DC are younger and not as savvy or as worldly as mine. They are far less likely to cope.

He has a good steady job where he is and family.

So, in theory yes he could. But he’d have to find a job and sell his house (I rent) and it would be a much more difficult court process basically starting from the beginning as they have an informal arrangement currently.

I think one huge factor here is that dad sees the children bare minimum through choice - if he wanted to play a bigger part in the kids lives then he would so why should op have to stay because of him. I get that. I couldn’t tell you what the courts would consider because I don’t believe the courts really do what’s best for the children, based on my own experiences.

I’ve just found out he works part time. He has one day off a week. Absolutely zero offer to look after the kids while they are off school so I can work myself.

Sorry, just ranting now.

Why are CAFCASS okay with him having them for weekends if they think he’s abusive?

Unclear if it’s his choice not to have them more as you also say it’s down to CAFCASS.

You need to focus on all the ways it benefits the children - better schools, out of school stuff, future prospects etc. You also need to have good proposals on maintaining regular contact with their father.
Does he take them to see his parents? If they’ve been having regular contact when they’re with him you might find them wanting to get involved too.

Well because he wasn’t abusive enough basically to cause that much concern.

School nights and mornings when he was with dcs on his own (without his partner) he would lose his shit with them.

Pre court and at court he voluntarily down graded his weekends from 3 to 2 nights and declined the offered midweek night. And holidays he takes what fits around his work / girlfriend / social life which is not as much access as I am court-ordered to allow him.

CAFCASS had grave concerns and only didn’t order Section 7 because I said I was happy they were safe with certain other measures put in place by court.

I don’t really want to go into any more detail.

His family - not especially I don’t think. Certainly not regular

I honestly don’t think you will be able to. Your reasons aren’t strong enough.

The only way is if ex agreed to it ?

I’m screwed 😕

Money. He likes money. The divorce isn’t quite settled. I might be able to buy him out. 🤔

As I understand the law, you are free to move anywhere within the British jurisdiction without other parents permission. I was given this advice a few years ago legally. I moved to another county. You are entitled to a life and the court sees a happy mother will more likely raise happy children. You have to seek permission if you move out of the British jurisdiction, either from father or if he denies permission you can apply to the court.

Unfortunately it’s not quite like that. There is court ordered access. Which although can by large be kept to, it will need to change slightly.

If I just went XH could apply to the courts with an emergency application and hey could very well haul my arse back.

Another angle is the fact I am renting. And currently my earnings don’t cover my monthly costs. So my savings are slowly (quickly) dwindling. When that’s gone the children will be living in poverty. To buy a shared ownership place would require a two bed flat in the city near where I live or a 2 bed house an hour away anyway.

In that case apply to the court and stress how you will be vastly more supported with partner, and more stable. But do not mention money as a motivation at all unless asked specifically.

The issue is that neither you or your fiancé have autonomy over where you can live with your children. The principle that the children’s interests come first is one that I agree with. Defining that and judging what is right will be up to you and the other parent but if you don’t agree then it will come down to a judge. He or she will want to see an awful lot more information than is posted on here. And rightly so.

Have you spoken to your ex about the move ? If he is all right with it then there is not problem. If he isn’t, would he take court action to stop you or just make a lot of noise.

I would also urge caution about forgoing “money” you and your children are entitled to in the divorce. I don’t think that is a good idea. You need that money to build security for the children independent of your new man. Get the settlement agreed and then decide if you need to move and can afford it.

One other factor is that your children are young and his are younger. How will they all cope with the transition to a family of 8 ?

Money wise are you claiming CMS ?

This will depend on a number of factors. There is a cAfcass protocol for considering whether relocation is in their best interest. The critical issue is that if you move does your partner have enough room, is the school as good as or better than their current school. Most important is the issue of how you intend to ensure that the children can continue to have weekly contact with the absent parent

OP what has your solicitor said?

One option might be to get the court order amended first, to reflect the real situation. As in: their father refused the court-ordered access and is basically not stepping up, the kids see him not that frequently and you're the one putting all the effort in. If you skipped the access for a day, what would the father's reaction be?

How do your children feel about seeing their father, what's their relationship like with him?