Mandatory vaccines are nothing new

[sourcherie]

so we’ve been sliding down this slippery slope for about 200 years.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20211029-why-mandatory-vaccination-is-nothing-new

I have my misgivings - mainly because I don’t think it’s the way to persuade committed anti-vaxxers to get the jab - and it plays into their narrative. But there is a difference between coercive and mandatory vaccines, and with all mandatory vaccination so far, no one has had a needle forced into their arm against their will.

I would have gone about it differently, but as someone who’s lived in Austria for over 20 years, I can guarantee you that no one will be forced into it and there will be countless exemptions. As I wrote on another thread - Austrians have an extremely fuzzy grey zone when it comes to interpreting rules and regulations.

It seems on social media (including mumsnet) that people really think citizens are going to be pinned down and injected or that the police are going to be carting them off to prison left, right and centre. I’m fairly sure the reality will be a lot less eventful.

I've had a knee jerk reaction against the vax from very early on for many reasons, and the idea of it being mandatory DOES frighten me - but it doesn't make me more likely to have it.

I was on hols in Austria in 2018... no lifeguards. I mean none at all. At heaving with children pay-to-access swimming pools (outdoor & indoor). With high diving boards. It certainly was a different take on health & safety!!

That’s good to hear OP but judging by the size of the protest today in Vienna. And I’m guessing there were others around Austria too. People seemed angry. It doesn’t sound like social media is over reacting.

There is cause for concern.

TotoShetland yes, there were a lot of people - 10,000, I think, largely called to action by the leader of the FPÖ (far right party), and many bussed in from all over Austria, and neighbouring countries. (Some of whom were also wearing plastic bags on their heads to protect themselves from the Pfizer vaccine being sprayed on them by the police helicopters - but that’s another story, and I think we can assume they were a minority)

@YeOldeTrout

I was on hols in Austria in 2018... no lifeguards. I mean none at all. At heaving with children pay-to-access swimming pools (outdoor & indoor). With high diving boards. It certainly was a different take on health & safety!!

They are more relaxed but I’m surprised about the lifeguards - I’ve been to a lot of pools in Vienna and there have always been Bademeister present. Maybe not in the rest of Austria, not sure.

Also they think you’re mad and neurotic if you ask for a life jacket for your child on any sort of boat on a (deep) lake 🤷🏻‍♀️ Or if you insist on a car seat for your baby when your sister-in-law, for example, wants to be the one to drive everyone around 😬

@sourcherie

TotoShetland yes, there were a lot of people - 10,000, I think, largely called to action by the leader of the FPÖ (far right party), and many bussed in from all over Austria, and neighbouring countries. (Some of whom were also wearing plastic bags on their heads to protect themselves from the Pfizer vaccine being sprayed on them by the police helicopters - but that’s another story, and I think we can assume they were a minority)

Whaaat?

Are you serious?

This is even worse than imagined. Seriously!!!!!’

@sourcherie

TotoShetland yes, there were a lot of people - 10,000, I think, largely called to action by the leader of the FPÖ (far right party), and many bussed in from all over Austria, and neighbouring countries. (Some of whom were also wearing plastic bags on their heads to protect themselves from the Pfizer vaccine being sprayed on them by the police helicopters - but that’s another story, and I think we can assume they were a minority)

You sound like the plastic bags were a problem.

I know they’re not good for the environment but neither I presume is squirting Pfizer vaccines all over the place. Not to mention every other line that kind of action crosses.

I certainly don’t think they are the problem, and I said I assume they were in the minority. Still indicative of a certain mindset.

There have been protests in Vienna every Saturday since the pandemic began.

Sorry - who/what were in the minority?

Do you mean the helicopters spraying the vaccines?

And how were they spraying them? They’re contained in tiny glass vials aren’t they? Surely the vaccine couldn’t reach protesters from such a height?

Sumsencosrshit Deadly serious. www.derstandard.at/story/2000131304808/impfgegner-warnen-vor-impfhubschraubern-und-kanalimpfung-bei-wiener-demo

Jesus Christ, some people are even more thick than they originally seemed.

I meant the people with plastic bags on their heads were in the minority! The police weren’t actually spraying people with the Pfizer vaccine 🤨

Yesterday was the first time we’ve been out somewhere as a family that demanded to see our ‘covid passport’. I’ll be honest, I have no idea what that is and the place hadn’t made it clear they would only allow access to those who were fully vaccinated (or I think holding a negative LFT test). As it happened we are both double jabbed and happened to have that documentation with us. I was very surprised though that they were being so strident about it.

There would be no point spraying a vaccine , it needs to be injected to work .

Oh dear, I’m sorry I wasn’t clear, I’m amazed anyone could think that in any way possible!

It's OK OP, I could tell you didn't think that but some other people on the thread appeared to think it was possible.

I think we have just found the lowest common denominator of anti-vaxxers.

We had compulsory small pox vaccines in this UK in 1853ish and guess what, we also had anti-vaxxers then.

The UK has also lost its measles free status. Turns out that when those DC who missed their jab due to Wakefield went to Uni, cases exploded.

Some people don't understand the science of vaccines and no matter how patiently someone explains it to them, they never will because they don't want to.

You sound like the plastic bags were a problem.I know they’re not good for the environment but neither I presume is squirting Pfizer vaccines all over the place. Not to mention every other line that kind of action crosses.

Why am I not suprised that that comedy gold comment was from @sencosrshit under a NC

OK, so I've just read the article from BBC America (a country that, unlike the UK, has a long history of mandatory vaccines). Not to mention having had this argument with my DBro. I work in the pharma industry, we make vaccines and I am as provaccine as they come. However, I strongly disagree with vaccines being mandatory for the general public, there is no evidence to support it and it's a massive corruption of our rights of autonomy over our own bodies. Put simply, people have the right to be stupid. The one time we had mandatory vaccines in the UK the opposition to vaccines increased. In fact, considering the UK is generally the most pro vaccination country in the world (thanks to trust in the NHS and the fact that we actually invented vaccination) I suspect making vaccines mandatory here would only result in a massive backlash. We're contrary like that.

Obviously the political climate is different in Austria so I can't comment on that but what we've found from work that was done in regions with resistance to smallpox and polio vaccination it is really important to engage with people's concerns about vaccination and address those if we want to increase vaccination rates rather than dismissing such concerns as 'stupid' and making vaccinations compulsory.

Jesus Christ, someone actually believed they were spraying Pfizer out of a helicopter!!!!!

I repeatedly feel like I've been catapulted back into the middle ages over the last 18 months.....

I have my misgivings - mainly because I don’t think it’s the way to persuade committed anti-vaxxers to get the jab - and it plays into their narrative

This assumes that a sizeable number of the unvaccinated are 'committed anti-vaxxers', but the evidence suggests that most aren't. The skyrocketing vaccine rate in generally vaccine-hesitant France as soon as covid passports became required, for example, suggests otherwise. The extreme polarisation of politics in the US right now means it is a little different there (and has infected groups all over the world), but in general, there's not been a huge outcry over health workers having mandatory hepatitis vaccines or children in some countries needing them for school.

I would prefer them not to be legally mandatory overall, but mandatory to get on with much of normal life. It's far fairer for the voluntarily unvaccinated to have to isolate than the involuntary vulnerable.

I was told there will be fines and if you refuse to pay you will go to prison. So is this not true? How are they doing it?

@Sumsencosrshit

Sorry - who/what were in the minority?

Do you mean the helicopters spraying the vaccines?

And how were they spraying them? They’re contained in tiny glass vials aren’t they? Surely the vaccine couldn’t reach protesters from such a height?

They tip all the tiny glass vials out into into a big sprayer and use that. Of course, it means some people get a huge dose and others just a dribble.

Or, you're not thinking this through, are you?