Who’s dying if so many vaccinated?

[Flossie44]

So if the vaccination rate is about 80%, who’s in hospital/dying? Is it the 20% unvaccinated?

There's something really hinky with that link @JesusInTheCabbageVan - way more than 536 unvaccinated people died during the time period.

There's also some bad typos and the writing is really garbled, including unusually ungrammatical quotes from ministers.

It reads like an algorithm cobbled it together from a variety of sources and no one sense-checked it. I wouldn't rely on anything in it without checking other sources first.

Someone said that covid is the most important issue of our time.

That could have done with 'i think' at the start!

I'm more concerned with other things personally. Way more concerned.

[quote JesusInTheCabbageVan]Ok, here it is.

uk.news.yahoo.com/how-many-double-jabbed-people-are-dying-from-covid-151218361.html[/quote]
Thanks for checking, but those figures are just not true. I think there is a lot of misinformation out there and this is some of it.

Deaths by vax status per age group here.

Regardless of all these arguments about deaths with/of covid, they have been measured in the same way for both groups-vaccinated and unvaccinated.

you can see the difference in the last two columns which show the death rates per 100,000 people.

This is worrying as high proportion double vaxxed.

www.itv.com/news/2021-09-11/peston-covid-infections-higher-in-doubled-vaxxed-aged-40-79-than-for-non-vaxxed

@everythingthelighttouches

Deaths by vax status per age group here.

Regardless of all these arguments about deaths with/of covid, they have been measured in the same way for both groups-vaccinated and unvaccinated.

you can see the difference in the last two columns which show the death rates per 100,000 people.

That's great EverythingTheLightTouches, exactly what we need to know - do you have a link to where it came from? Looks like effectiveness drops off significantly as you go over 60, but that might possibly be a factor of the vaccine power waning with time.

The caveat, which applies to 3asABird's post as well, is that the base population numbers are not as robust as we'd like, and vary significantly with different sources.

3asAbird

“This is worrying as high proportion double vaxxed.”

This is cases not hospitalisation and deaths. You are much more likely to become unwell if unvaxxed.

But yes, given that covid is going to be running through the population again, there is potential for danger for the nhs again.

The older age groups as a whole are more likely to be hospitalised but within each age group, the unvaccinated are most likely to be hospitalised and to die.

In some age groups, they are 10x more likely to die.

ItllBeOverByChristmas

Yes, here.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1016465/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_36.pdf

This will be published regularly by ons from now on.

“The caveat, which applies to 3asABird's post as well, is that the base population numbers are not as robust as we'd like, and vary significantly with different sources.“

Yes, you’re quite right. I’ve been following James Ward on this.

The data in the table and the report I linked, used a certain type of data to estimate the base population called NIMS.

There is another data source, thought to be a more up to date and accurate estimation of population from ONS.

Here are the graphs comparing case rates and case hospitalisation rates between unvaccinated and fully vaccinated groups, by age, using that baseline.

The benefits of being vaccinated are even stronger with this data.

It’s this we’ve had 3 family members with terminal cancer but they’ve had (symptomless ) covid at the end and it’s covid that’s gone on death certificate not the cancer that was the real cause of death

But i assume cancer is never considered the cause of death as it will be something going wrong due to cancer that kills cancer suffers not the tumours themselves? Sorry for your losses.

No you definitely do put cancer in as a cause of death - the ONS stats list all causes of death broken down by age/sex/location every year and a large proportion of them are cancer.

I am, to say the least, sceptical that three people in the same household who died of terminal cancer with symptomless Covid had the Covid put on the death certificate but not the cancer, because multiple causes can certainly be put on the same certificate.

Just a thought on the age group 40 to 79 huge age range.
I am early 40s and husband late 40s and we dident get called / eligible for jabs until May .
Our doctors surgery had so many elderly we went via Central booking was bit of a postcode lottery how soon each age group opened up.
Many I here felt the 40 to 50 age groups was overlooked risk wise.

Not sure about 50 to 60 how much higher risk they were than 40 to 50.
I imagine the 60 to 79 group was greater risk and done much each maybe underneath different groups 1 to 9 depending on their health condition.
So could the older age spectrum be greater because they were vaccinated 1st and immunity waning as they started early Jan and data Israel suggests 6months pfizer and they dieent used az which we heavily relied upon for some if the 3-10 age group .
Studies seem show az only has 5months immunity .
Also older age groups may have other health condition that led to reduced immunity from vaccines?

Ageing immune system reduces efficacy of vaccines full stop.

@DameFanny and @Listener2021 yes 😬 rookie error!

Redeeming myself with this...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58545548

Extract:

Fully vaccinated people are much less likely to die with Covid-19 than those who aren't, or have had only one dose, figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show.

Out of more than 51,000 Covid deaths in England between January and July 2021, only 256 occurred after two doses.

They were mostly people at very high risk from illness from Covid-19.

The figures show the high degree of protection from the vaccines against illness and death, the ONS said.

Some deaths after vaccination were always expected because vaccines are not 100% effective - but this analysis shows they are rare.

"Breakthrough" deaths tend to happen in the most vulnerable, men and those with weakened immune systems, with the average age being 84.

But overall numbers were very small - they accounted for only 0.5% of all deaths from Covid-19 over the first six months of the year.

A "breakthrough death" is defined as one involving Covid-19 that occurred in someone who had received both vaccine doses, and had a first positive coronavirus test at least 14 days after the second jab.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

Redeeming myself with this...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58545548

Extract:

Fully vaccinated people are much less likely to die with Covid-19 than those who aren't, or have had only one dose, figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show.

Out of more than 51,000 Covid deaths in England between January and July 2021, only 256 occurred after two doses.

They were mostly people at very high risk from illness from Covid-19.

The figures show the high degree of protection from the vaccines against illness and death, the ONS said.

Some deaths after vaccination were always expected because vaccines are not 100% effective - but this analysis shows they are rare.

"Breakthrough" deaths tend to happen in the most vulnerable, men and those with weakened immune systems, with the average age being 84.

But overall numbers were very small - they accounted for only 0.5% of all deaths from Covid-19 over the first six months of the year.

A "breakthrough death" is defined as one involving Covid-19 that occurred in someone who had received both vaccine doses, and had a first positive coronavirus test at least 14 days after the second jab.

I think this needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Looking at the period the data is derived from (first 6 months of the year), the vast majority of deaths occurred before April, and only a small proportion of people in the top 5 risk groups (about a sixth) were 14 days post second vaccine by this time.

I'm very pro vaccines but that's a pretty misleading bit of journalism given that 90% of those deaths would have happened in January-March (and most of those were before mid Feb). How many people were double jabbed + 21 days by 1st April?

So why does the latest Public Health England technical briefing report 3rd September say different ?

The report says the opposite to the ONS BBC report.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

It's not your fault the data is being presented in such a misleading way.

@YellowClouds

The vaccine doesn't stop you from dying

It stops most people from dying of COVID though

There are an interesting number of people on these threads who seem to be trying to convince themselves that the vaccine doesn't work so they may as well not get it

True Itsnotover.

But also a bunch of people, including apparently the BBC who are trying to convince themselves that deaths of fully vaccinated people are vanishingly rare. Sadly that's not true either. (Not blaming you Jesus, it's the BBC's fault)

In the first 6 months of the year the main variant was Alpha and the vaccines were more effective againt that. However even with Delta the unvaccinated are more likely to be admitted to hospital and more likely todie. I wouldnt trust the unvaccinated to test when sick unless admitted to hospital.

There are never any guarantees in life but what has been consistently claimed is that you are much less likely to end up on a ventilator or in hospital if you have the vaccine.