Who should claim the SE grant?

[TheTideIsTurning]

Person A - self employed gardener, has continued to work with no loss of business, some small changes made whilst working eg. Socially distancing from customers, not accepting food or drinks. 2 older children living at home, no medical conditions.

Person B - self employed gardener, stopped working as soon as lock down started. Partner is also self employed and also stopped working. 2 children living at home, youngest has mild asthma, no other medical conditions.

Both eligible for the government grant. Who do you think should be claiming the government grant? Both of them? One of them? Or neither of them?

It depends what the eligibility criteria are.

Morally? Or are you asking what the rules allow?

If they are both eligible then both of them. Or are you actually saying that you don’t think one of them meets the eligibility criteria?

Morally. They are both entitled to claim, but that doesn't mean it's morally right to do so.

Both eligible for the government grant.

So both then.

Who do you think should be claiming the government grant?

It doesn't matter what I or the next 100 posters think. If they are eligible they are eligible.

If person A claims and their end of year accounts look too good I think HMRC will find a way to recover it in the tax return.

Person B of course is who it’s designed for.

I’m person C - still invoicing up till recently for projects mostly done from December to February and finished off in April. Invoices paid on 30 day terms so bank balance still looks good. However no new work lined up so unlikely to have any income in June July aug sept maybe longer. I’m claiming. I’m assuming that if work does pop up unexpectedly and my year is up in the average of the last three used to calculate the grant then I’ll be like person A and pay bank at the end of the year in my tax return.

They’re not entirely eligible - you have to tick A box to say “my business has been adversely affected”

Well, it's obvious who should and shouldn't. The only thing I'd say is that the cost of renewing trident, or building HS2 is much greater than the cost of this scheme. S/E people who pay tax and declare everything often pay more tax on their small earnings than Amazon. So I can't get too worked up about it.

And I'd suggest you don't either, loads of people bend rules, or do morally questionable things, but this isn't the worst thing in the world someone can do.

I agree people have taken the mick with the grant. We have friends who have an income from
A business they have sold and numerous rented properties as well as two second homes. They are in their early 40s and have retired only working in small life style businesses. They have taken the grant and see it as free money. They say there will not be another opportunity to get a loan at such a small interest rate in the future, they can pay it back over time or stick it in a high interest account and earn some interest before repaying. I don't know what they are using it for. It is not morally right though and wouldn't be DH and my decision.

You could argue that morally gardener A shouldn't claim, but we're falling headfirst into a huge recession and who is to say his business won't tail off in the next month when people realise they are in financial dire straits too and can no longer afford gardening work? If he's paid his taxes all his working life (presuming he has), should he not allowed to claim to cover loss of earnings in the future recession caused by Covid? I'm not saying either way, just asking the question!

The grant doesn’t need to be paid back, it’s not a loan. It will count as earned income for tax purposes. One of the eligibility criteria is that your business is adversely affected by covid. As you have said that both are eligible, then I am assuming that is the case for both of them. I’m really not sure that all this monitoring of what other people are doing is helpful or healthy, as we actually have no insight into the background health or finances of others.

Why on earth did person B not keep working? As a gardener your probably as safe as you can be from coronvirus

Yes, one of the criteria is that your business has been adversely affected by covid.

Neither business has (currently) been affected by covid.

Person A is still working to full capacity.

Person B chose to stop working even though there was no reason to stop eg. No medical conditions, no childcare issues.