Why kill Dr Marwan Sultan?

[TakeMe2Insanity]

Just that, why kill one of the few (2) cardiologists and his WHOLE family? So much for the targeted attacks. Or shall we go with the current zionist theory that all of Gaza is a sleeper cell.
Israel needs to be held to account for the hell they have created.

Don't you think Israel themselves are best placed to analyse what more could have been done/be done in future to reduce the risk of this happening again in future? Rather than people on the internet who are using the fact their citizens got raped and murdered to criticise Israel for not being more "on the ball".

Victim blaming is not a good look whether it's an individual, a group, a country or whoever has been attacked.

Well said. Honestly, they expect us to believe they care about Israel now.

The conclusion of the Israeli intelligence and military agencies are there were failings.

I have already said Hamas were culpable for the deaths of Israelis that they themselves killed. A state’s responsibility is to do what it can to prevent a terrorist attack and both the military and intelligence agencies have decided things could have been done differently.

Going forward- there needs to be an alternative to Hamas in Gaza and they are proposing a solution alongside a ceasefire that will allow that to happen.

I also think you are mistaken to think people don’t care about Israel. I can completely understand after the holocaust why Israel is important.

I am not sure Israel’s actions over the last 2 years will ultimately increase its safety without a clear plan for the day after. Hamas is actually giving an opportunity to consider an alternative power to itself in Gaza that Israel could work alongside, together with a ceasefire that many in Israel also have want to see happen.

Well obviously there were security failings or 7/10 wouldn't have happened.

Israel's top general resigned over it, taking responsibility for the security failures tied to Hamas's surprise attack.

Equally you could say other countries failed in some way that suffered terrorist attacks but you probably haven't said that about anywhere else as it comes across kinda unsympathetic. To blame the victims for being underprepared for the terrorist attack that happened to them. To suggest that it wouldn't have happened had they simply been more "on the ball".

We don't assume "people" don't care about Israel.

Many people do - even some that post on MN with an outlook that is very pro Palestinian do still appear to care about Israeli civilians (like those of us who are pro Israel can still care about what happens to Palestinian civilians).

It's also possible though to see that some posters don't care about Israel. They are the ones that constantly make excuses for Hamas or try to stop any mention of the fact that there are 2 sides behaving aggressively in this war not just one.

Absolutely. I also think its unhelpful to frame caring about Israel in the context of the Holocaust. The Holocaust was the most extreme manifestation of jew hatred, but not the only one, before or since, and much persecution of Jews happened in the Middle East. Israel is important now, because there are many, many people, right now, today who want to destroy the Jewish people, and many more around the world who really seem quite ok with it, or at least think they are bringing it on themselves, which absolves them of doing something about it.

That doesn’t mean the only alternative is to literally wipe out the entire civilian population of Gaza.

Noone on here has EVER said it was, have they?

Do you know what 'literally' actually means?

Israel is nowhere even remotely close to wiping out the 'entire civilian population'

You really should delete such a nonsensical post.
The only reason someone would post such a thing would be to try to completely drown out any sort of sensible conversation in hyperbole and misinformation. No doubt you have told us you dont support Hamas (I cant be botherd to check) but you're certainly making life easy for them

Accusing me of being a Hamas apologist for pointing out facts is absurd.

Netanyahu has repeatedly rejected peace deals, and international law is clear: Israel must distinguish civilians from fighters. Deliberately killing hundreds of thousands of children under five cannot be justified as self-defence.

Actually, I’m not exaggerating. Even if Israel isn’t literally killing every single civilian, the scale of what’s happening is staggering.

Bombing entire neighbourhoods, schools, hospitals, and deliberately blocking food and medical supplies has already killed tens of thousands- including potentially hundreds of thousands of children under five and is making survival nearly impossible for the rest.

International law doesn’t say civilians have to be wiped out completely for it to be illegal- systematically targeting civilians and making life impossible for a population counts.

It was you who said they were literally wiping out the entire civilian population of gaza. Now you're grudgingly admitting they arent but claiming you aren't exaggerating? Its the definition of exaggeration. You are absolutely being an apologist for Hamas, absolving them of responsibility over the failure of ceasefire negotiations and wildly exaggerating what is happening.

Just to clarify, my exact words were: ‘That doesn’t mean the only alternative is to literally wipe out the entire civilian population of Gaza.’ I’ve never claimed Israel has literally done so. Although their actions and patterns of behaviour strongly suggest that is what they are trying to do.

My point is entirely about international law: deliberately targeting civilians, starving children, and destroying hospitals is prohibited, and the humanitarian impact is catastrophic. None of that absolves Hamas of responsibility for attacks on 7/10, but dismissing Israel’s disproportionate response and the suffering of civilians as ‘hyperbole’ doesn’t change the facts.

Potentially 380,000 infants under five are among those killed- does that not underline the gravity of the humanitarian crisis and the need for a deal? Or are you more interested in picking fights and accusing me of being a Hamas sympathiser than having a serious discussion?

Deliberately killing hundreds of thousands of children under 5?

What on earth are you taking about?

I’m talking about the humanitarian impact of Israel’s military strategy and blockade in Gaza.

At least over 20,000 children have already been killed since October 2023, and hundreds of thousands more are suffering severe malnutrition and lack of medical care due to the blockade. A report by Dr. Gideon Polya and Professor Richard Hil (published on September 3) also estimates that since October 7, 2023, the total death toll in Gaza is at least 680,000, with 380,000 of those being infants under five years of age. These figures are based on data collected from various sources, including health ministries and humanitarian organisations.

The death toll is now 680k and 380k of those children?

So somehow theres an extra 600,000 deaths unnoticed by Hamas?

Do you actually believe that?

Your wild hyperbole, shifting of goalposts and lack of clarity around what exactly it is you want to discuss, other than Israel is to blame for ALL of it, suggests you are uninterested in proper discussion.

For example. Just chuck in a figure of 380 000 children under 5 killed, with no source, and think putting 'potentially' in front of it, makes it a serious contribution to a proper conversation? The total current figure according to Hamas for all people, adults, children, civilians and combatants is around 65,000.

So, back tracking agsin. Now you're not saying 'deliberately killing'.

Ok.

My point isn’t shifting or exaggerating, it’s about the disproportionate impact on civilians, particularly children, in Gaza.

The 380,000 infants under five is an independent estimate by Dr. Gideon Polya and Professor Richard Hil, which I clearly prefaced with potentially. Official figures from the Gaza Health Ministry and humanitarian agencies report around 65,000 deaths, with roughly 80% being civilians, including women and children.

So I’m not “blaming Israel for all of it” or trying to move goalposts. I’m highlighting the humanitarian crisis and violations of international law that are occurring, regardless of the exact total. The concern over the impact on children remains valid whether the confirmed deaths are 65,000 or higher.

Where am I backtracking?

Israeli military actions have directly killed children.

Nothing to say about the actual points I’m making then? No?

No. You literally said Israel has killed hundreds of thousands of children. You know that's not true. Its blood libel.

20k is bad enough.

The only reason I'm still commenting is in case anyone else reads what you wrote and believes it.

Now we're down to 'directly killed children'. Backtracking a little bit at a time. Everyone can see what you're doing.

What am I doing?

You know better than anyone!

Pointing out that disproportionately harming civilians is a war crime?

That targeting children is unacceptable?

That upwards of 20,000 children have been killed so far in this conflict in a myriad of disgusting ways? That one estimate puts that number at 380,000 children under five?

If stating the facts makes me “doing something,” then yes- I’m doing the only thing that matters: highlighting the humanitarian catastrophe that cannot be ignored.