Why kill Dr Marwan Sultan?

[TakeMe2Insanity]

Just that, why kill one of the few (2) cardiologists and his WHOLE family? So much for the targeted attacks. Or shall we go with the current zionist theory that all of Gaza is a sleeper cell.
Israel needs to be held to account for the hell they have created.

It's in the OPT. Israel itself does have massive problems with racism like all of abused, badly paid Thai workers they keep living in over crowded sheds but the racial segregation from the ICJ ruling is in the OPT.

Whats the OPT? Whats Thai workers got to do with it? Keeping workers in overcrowded sheds sounds awful but its not racial segregation? Whats that got to do with whether or not Hamas should just bloody surrender? Are we down the rabbithole again?!

What are you talking about? Nothing to do with Hamas, these sort of comments are why I can’t take you people seriously.

Nethenyahu is a spent force or will be soon.

That's the point there is no one credible history source which is why scholars have debated the events so extensively. Obviously this is also because it is such an emotive issue so impartiality can be difficult.

Israel has 17 million files in it's possession many of which have been looted from Palestinian institutes . Haaratz about 5 years ago did a report on a decade long clearout where the Israeli Defence Ministry removed documents relating to the Nakba and the role of Zionist forces

So to answer your question I have read reading from authors such as Kharmi who is also not impartial but falls in with my own beliefs. Even novels such as those by Susan Abulhawab give insight.

Now do I agree with the Arabs rejecting the 1947 UN plan .. looking with the hindsight of history it was the wrong decision. However at the time the feeling of given the majority of the land to the minority was unfair and this is understandable.

My own granny would have told me about the stories her father told her about the 1921 Treaty in Ireland and the depth of feeling it caused that the six counties remained with Britain. Land is something people can be so passionate about.

Dude you've been commenting on this for months and don't know what the OPT is? Google is free try it.

You are the same person that didn't even know that Gaza is occupied aren't you? It's no wonder you've never heard of the OPT before then.

It stands for the Occupied Palestinian Territory, the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.

The very first thing is that needs to be an agreement between both parties to end the war. A ceasefire agreement.

I don’t mean to be picking on you. But I am just challenging this view, that many people who support Israeli actions seem to have. If Hamas disappeared into a puff of air, Gaza would still be under blockade and in a desperate situation and the desire of Palestinians to have their own state would not disappear. The conditions for growing terrorism would remain. Would the Israeli even stop the current conflict ? I’m not sure they would now.

Peace any where is always so much more than one side disarming.

You really think it is that straightforward? This didn't all just start on October 7th, you know. Still, if you are ok with what Israel are doing......

I did Google. I got a load of stuff about Occupational Practical Training. My algorithm is clearly different to yours. But thanks for your helpful input as always.

Ghadi Karmi also wants the whole state of Israel to be dismantled, thinks that Jewish people are looking for revenge for the Holocaust and that October 7th was resistance so yeah she would say that.

Occupied Palestinian Territories in reference to Gaza and the West Bank. That is what the EU, most of the global south, many NGOs and the UN and even in some documents the US use.

Ah I see you've edited your post to be more helpful. The OPT is not Israel you ninny, its Palestine, so it doesnt tell us anything about racial segregation in Israel.

I referenced the fact that she was biased like nearly everyone on this subject. Obviously someone with lived experience like hers (she was 9 when her family fled Palestine for England due to the Nakba) will have strong views not all will be sanitised.

(NB I do not agree with all her opinions )

If you are interested the Amnesty report on Israeli apartheid details the discriminatory laws and policies that impact Arab Israeli’s and Palestinians living in the OPT.

You may not agree with it but it does offer a different perspective with some solid research behind it.

And I'm sure if an Israeli who had lived through October 7thot sone other attack you'd be just as sympathetic to them if they decided to make racist comments or justify the IDFs actions, even if they don't fall in line with your own believes like hers do.

It's ok, I dont think youre picking on me, you always seem quite reasonable even if we don't agree.

I agree that if Hamas were to disappear in a puff of air ( 😬 ) then Gaza would still be in a terrible way. I worry the place is a hotbed of future terrorists. But that way more bloodshed lies. The Palestinians need a leader who truly, truly wants peace and who accepts Israel will always exist in the region. If Hamas were to just fuck off, there would be much less likelihood of BN remaining in power, I fervently hope the nutjobs Smotrich and Ben Givr would be gone along with him. Israel also needs a leader who truly wants peace- and to allow Palestinie to exist- but the democratic structure is there for Israelis to vote for it if they wish.

But I'm absolutely convinced the first thing that needs to happen is Hamas going. How could any country allow them to stay after what they did, and what they have promised to keep doing?

Do you not think it's helpful to know about the ICJ ruling? To know that Gaza is occupied territory? To know that Israel are guilty of racial descrimintaion? These are basic things that effect every single day of millions of Palestinian lives, I'd say it's pretty important to know the basics of the things you are commenting on.

And my point about OPT is that much of the world considers Israeli to be illegally occupying these territories. So nobody is a “ninny” for saying this. It something you don’t agree with clearly but it is backed up by both international law and the opinion of international governments.

My mind boggles a bit that Israel insist they are not occupying Gaza and the West Bank but neither will they allow the people who live there to have their own state.

I never said the racial segregation was in Israel itself, I said they should end their racial discrimintaion. Calling people names because you are embarrassed at your lack of knowledge is very primary school behaviour.

@dairydebris Absolutely The situation is dark because there are no voices for peace. From the sounds of it there are many armed groups in Gaza and any transfer of power from Hamas would need to be carefully managed by an outside party such as in the Arab plan. So no I can’t agree that the first step is them dissolving. I think that should come at some point in a road of course but I just don’t think it is that simple.

OK. I dont fancy Kharmi, sounds partisan. Will give Susan Abulhawab a go. I recently enjoyed ( again 😬 as it was actually pretty harrowing ) A Day in the Life of Abed Salama enlightening on life in the West Bank.
I'll take any recommendations for factual history from anyone else. I've found Simon Sebag Montefiore very readable.

Absolutely I would. I think lived experiences shape us in a way that our opinions are allowed to be unsanitary.
If the Bibas father or any family member of the hostages wished death on every Hamas member or agreed with the current offensive I would see that as understandable.(I might not agree but compassion is needed)

It is also the reason Hamas has swelled it's ranks because those with lived experiences of death and destruction tend to be irrational in their desire for revenge.

So what does you think should come first? If not Hamas surrendering, returning hostages, disarming?

I agree absolutely not simple, and possibly one of the most complex situations in the world at the moment.

Thank you for the recommendations I will also look them up.

I recently read Apeirogon. It's based on a true story. Again not without criticism (Al Jazeera were very critical) but I enjoyed the human story it gave to both Israelis and Palestinians.

You said Israel was involved in racial segregation.

I'm not embarrassed at my lack of knowledge. I'm asking more to learn. But your manner of posting is consistently unpleasant and I knew that before I started responding to you. I regret it, a bit. You still haven't answered on Hamas. You're not posting in good faith. Ta ra.

For a ceasefire agreement - a truce that will lead to a permanent end to the war. The return of the hostages, enough aid. These are urgent and lifesaving.

Hamas being dismantled realistically will come down the line. Who would even be at the negotiating table then? It’s not realistic.