Why do you get all the knobs at Glastonbury? (Part 2)

[HellsBalls]

Bob Vylan crying in their cornflakes after having their US visas revoked.
This is pretty serious as one ESTA question is ‘Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa you applied for with your current or previous passport, or have you ever been refused admission to the United States or withdrawn your application for admission at a U.S. port of entry?’

So no US work or holidays in the future for them.

Also three festivals have dropped them, so far.

Freedom of speech yes, freedom from the consequences, no.

If you think one arsehole in a disgusting shirt represents the entire pro-Palestinian lobby, you are even more disingenuous than I thought.

No-one pretends these awful people don’t exist, but stop conflating any pro-Palestinian support with terrorist sympathisers.

I can't help you if you're not prepared to see the view that many of us see, I'm not the disingenuous one.

Hamas is made up of exactly the same people as Israel but born Arab not Jewish.

The Israeli atrocities currently going on aren’t more righteous because of a disgusting act of terrorism. Israel is infinitely more powerful and better financially supported than Palestine.

A civilised nation doesn’t win by stooping to the level of its attacker.

You are being disingenuous, you are sourcing images and incidents of people to make an argument that most pro Palestinian supporters are like these minority terrorist supporting people. Pretty sure you'd have a major issues if people kept posting the images, videos, violence, genocidal language of the illegal settlers and claimed we can't help you if you're not prepared to see the view that many of us see,

If you are that lacking in critical thinking skills and genuinely believe that the majority of posters here support Hamas why are you even engaging with them? I certainly wouldn't if I thought the people I was discussing things with supported terrorism.

I'm currently half way through Douglas Murray's latest book. I don't need to read this to have a basic idea of how unsettling the Pro Palestine ' movement' is. It does however reaffirm my problem with this Pro Palestine movement over here, at places like Glastonbury particularly.

I agree that one person flying a flag in support for the concept of Free Palestine does not automatically condone Hamas or their atrocities. Yet, the point @quantumbutterfly makes is valid.

Why, in the immediate aftermath of the death of approximately 1400 people at Nova and surrounding, (the next day in fact) were there multiple pro Palestine protests across the West, including Times Square and London? When there has been no such protest counter to this in support of the victims and reflecting the psychotic driven death of 1400 Jewish people.Why were Western people doing this, including students?

Why are these people not reflecting in any way upon the terrorist attack of that scale targeting Jewish people? I'm reading about breasts being sliced off, phone calls from Hamas fighters to parents bragging about killing Jews with applause from the family.

And this is happening alongside a concerning rise in Jewish hate crime and attacks?

There is something inherently messed up here.

Why are so many Western people jumping on this at Glasto? Why are they not up in absolute arms over Oct 7th? Why, the next day did a significant pro Palestine movement propel into our faces, comprising a proportion of be kind pin heads from what I can see? Why are a crowd of morons singing death to the IDF? It is highly symbolic of a bigger issue.

It might not say ' I support Hamas' ( I think it does actually for a proportion that I can't quantify). But what it does say, is i don't give a shit about the massacre of 1400 Jewish people having fun at a Festival in the most psychopathic manner. It says, I don't understand wtf is going on and the scale of it. I don't understand the undercurrent of anti semitism and the dramatic rise in attacks against Jewish people. I'm kind though 🤗. Or,maybe,I don't like Jewish people perhaps?

I do believe a high proportion of those going along with this are nothing more than be kind idiots. These people become dangerous when there's no acknowledgement of the undercurrent here - why no reflection on the atrocities of Oct 7th? This co occurring alongside an increase in attacks on Jewish people. A significant movement pushing protests for Pro Palestine the day after Oct 7th? Nothing quite like the Pro Palestine flag flying from the ' other side' despite the barbarism they endured in the name of Islam. ( Is that ok or is that too Islamaphobic to say?)

I would not want to be Jewish in the midst of all this.

Edit to add - I'm not calling anyone on this thread idiots to be clear.

Did they not teach you that Israel sponsoren Hamas initially as they wanted to get rid of the Palestinian Liberation organisation. Funny you didn't mention that

I think "ignorant" also covers it.

Expand. Please define how calling the religion barbaric is ignorant.

Just because a religion has some violent elements, it doesn't mean the whole faith is rotten. I interact with dozens of Muslims each week and very few of them show any signs of being barbaric.
Are they just hiding their barbarity, and waiting for the right moment to pounce ?

I believe you. I believe you have really pleasant interactions with Muslim people you may know. I volunteered with a few pleasant Muslim women. Well they appeared decent and kind.

How can one ever know that about any individual on the surface.

I'm being very deliberate in my avoidance of mentioning Muslim individuals, especially women.

I do believe there will be people stretching the interpretation of their holy book beyond the realms of reason in order to move away from the questionable reality of it. Again, I believe you.

I'm not ignorant at all. Quite the opposite. I have made a very concerted and deliberate effort to learn and read and question my initial knee jerk position. I have much more to learn regarding history of this, which I will do. Before embarking on such, my immediate knee jerk reaction was to feel sympathy and alignment with Palestine. Without knowing anything. Why would I do that? I am still exploring the answer. This is in knowing almost nothing,my reaction was immediately this. Why.

I did the same with the Trans agenda. An immediate knee jerk be kind response. Let them be, live and let live, support the underdog. Once again, I then proceeded to learn, to read and debate and have now, with greater awareness and a determined effort to learn more, have moved entirely away from my be kind position.

Thus, I do not in any way come from a place of ignorance, or laziness. There is scope to learn more. There always is.

Initially? Not sure who taught you that. I've read that Hamas grew out of the 'muslim brotherhood', started in Gaza as a 'charitable' foundation distributing food superficially, but as with any dealer the first free fix hooks you in and then you pay.

The finances of it's leaders are pretty shady, they're aid billionaires with Turkish property portfolios....now, as was Arafat of the PLO eventually, not a bad scam for them.

What you describe is what many like me perceive pro-palestinian/anti Israeli posters have deluged this board with, including constant exhortations of heartless , genocide supporting baby killers and other such sentiments towards any views not entirely supportive of their stance.
I don't often engage now with it, certainly less so than in 2023.

Then so some more reading and also understand why.

You assume you've done all the reading you need to.

Quite a bit over the past decades as it happens as well as having a father who was part of negotiating the Oslo agreement.

If you say so.

And yet the entire Jewish/Israeli/Zionist population is represented by this one woman holding this poster for 45 seconds before it was removed from her.

I don't see anything of any substance coming from your end tbh.

Am I wrong that the plo & hamas finances are shady and that they involve billions?
Am I wrong to correct pp's assertion that BN was the initial funder of hamas?
Am I wrong that they may have started with charitable intentions but are more akin to a mafia now?

Probably because substance for you if only if I agree with your viewpoint. My point re BN support for Hamas to destabilise the Palestinian side is actually very important and not to be missed.

Please share your knowledge by answering my questions.

I hadn't watched the footage of Gazans / Palestinians frothing over the parading bodies of the Bibas family. I have now. It is even worse than I thought.

I see swathes of people cheering. I see swathes and swathes of people, with kids, in glee at the parade. I see a party atmosphere .

This signifies a support for barbaric behaviour, at the hands of Hamas, beyond Hamas from what I see.

At this same time, pea brain Corbyn tweets ' stop arming Israel '. Eh? Mind blown.

This situation is even worse than I originally realised. Why are people supporting Palestine and not reflecting on this stuff? There's something more underneath this.

Is this how the Holocaust happened.

@TaraTomsmum we only have your word for it that you are worth "learning from" and actually when people have to tell you that, it's a red flag.

Your attitude on this thread has been unnecessarily combative and that's not a good way to get people to actually listen to your point of view. Plus you bought your Dad's job into the discussion as it that makes you an authority.

Maybe you don't possess the same negotiation skills that he had. All you seem to have done on this thread is put people's backs up with your attitude.

JoyDivison

Completely agree with your posts.

I think there are a lot of naive going people looking for a cause to protest and this is a result of Hamas propaganda and I am sure part of their overall strategy was to allow this war and death of Palestinians to whip up division in western societies so there was a global intolerance of Jews and cause international pressure on Israel to cease their conflict with terms acceptable to Hamas. Hamas have failed in this objective but that failure has been the result of the government being hard against those propagating hate such as Bob Vylan.

It looks like we are reaching a ceasefire as Trump is keen and I hope a ceasefire will allow some reduction in the pro Palestine people propagating hate. If there is a ceasefire then the 'genocide' will have stopped. (Please note of you have a true genocide you don't stop because you have a peace agreement ) and in theory celebration by all those concerned with civilians death. However the concern is that the pro Palestine job will turn to a movement for the delegitmisation of Israel as a state and instigate hate against Jews for possibly what they see as revenge.