Why do you get all the knobs at Glastonbury? (Part 2)

[HellsBalls]

Bob Vylan crying in their cornflakes after having their US visas revoked.
This is pretty serious as one ESTA question is ‘Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa you applied for with your current or previous passport, or have you ever been refused admission to the United States or withdrawn your application for admission at a U.S. port of entry?’

So no US work or holidays in the future for them.

Also three festivals have dropped them, so far.

Freedom of speech yes, freedom from the consequences, no.

young above

@TaraTomsmum
You will find that some people will get very personal when their narrative of the events are challenged. They should really hold a mirror to themselves as they appear to be the most “combative” of all!

I have read various sources that state US was not an honest broker of peace, and pushed Israeli objectives onto Palestinians.

I forwarded this link to a podcast in another post.

The historian Pappe speaks of this in the following podcast from @ 25 min

https://open.spotify.com/episode/473ZZTD9r6zgVOjs9meJfi?si=SeqPKzgnSMWZs4v0HBmssw

Hoping that Tara will reply to my questions. Quite agog.

I'm reading about him now and hope to learn more. I hadn't heard of him tbh.

I'm asking questions and pondering. No one answers those questions I ask. I'm malleable on most subjects as a previous post demonstrates.

I appreciate my reflections on a preferentially protected religion ( entirely accurate reflections) may be seen as combative. I'm happy and willing to reflect negatively on any religion where appropriate. Yet, I'm not allowed to here with one in particular.

A debate would be of interest and an alternative viewpoint to my reflections on that part would be welcomed. My posts are deleted so we can't do that. Convenient.

I held a mirror up to myself when I watched the Nova Festival documentary. My immediate non thinking visceral reaction in the first instance within a few minutes was envy. It was an automatic response. Envy of the people partying. They seemed to me not to be underdogs, to be in some way privileged. I have no idea why I felt that way. I believe there is a common undercurrent of feeling that way about Jewish people. I don't know where this comes from. I don't like it.

Show me one person here as honest and reflective about themselves and willing to challenge that.......

I didnt say I was an authority. I brought my dad’s job in because it was relevant to how long I have followed the conflict. It was being questioned where I had my knowledge from and insinuated it was social media and it isn’t. I don’t think I am anymore combative than anyone else on this thread, but I do get quite “hot under the collar” when BN and his governments role and intentions are not really understood. It’s too many people thinking of only Hamas have up the hostages etc all will be fine. This is such a complex conflict, it’s not possible to take ONE side here other than side with the civilian victims on all sides. This is my last post as I am about to board a plane and go on holiday!

You have put your finger on something very real - the Jewish people don't fit the box that the left likes to put its victims in, therefore they can never be victims, but only oppressors. Its why there was such a shocking lack of empathy shown after 7 October and since. Its linked in to the infantilisation of the Palestinians who never have any agency because they have been put into the victim box. I was accused somewhere, this thread or another, of having contempt for Palestinians. My own view is that those that infantilise them have the contempt. This is too nuanced a conversation for here really. I didnt see any of your deleted posts so I cant comment but the way the different groups are perceived externally is hugely problematic and I think is rooted in some quite complex racism.

@SharonEllis Yes, this makes so much sense to me. I am struggling to understand it all. Yet what you say brings together so much of what I'm finding no answers to.

I wonder why there aren't more obvious representations of people who are Pro Israel or commemorative of the 7th October victims. I am not Jewish living in London say, but I am going to guess people would be afraid to do this, in London especially. ( I could be wrong here).

Do such people know there will be minimal support and sneering even from liberal type loonies. And then there's the other faction, not even Pro Palestinian but perhaps also including some, maybe many, followers of Islam watching. I can't quantify that I appreciate and I'm not in the thick of it.

I'd be scared a little tbh. Not irrationally so. The fear is valid. ' Islamaphobia' as a thing quite conveniently bolsters that.

The Jewish community very actively commemorates the 7 October victims in vigils, memorials and various activities. They wear yellow ribbons, if you go to areas where larger numbers live you will see ribbons tied to trees etc.

From the very beginning the posters and stickers were torn down or mutilated with antisemitic graffitti. In just one example, the memorial in Brighton set up by the family of Tsachi Idan (a hostage murdered by Hamas) is regularly attacked, their vigils disrupted. You can follow Heidi Bachram on social media to see how they are treated.
A small number of non-Jewish allies support these events but on the whole they are pretty shunned by those who supposedly care about human rights and racism, the Left, in the union movement, in universities etc etc. Where were the statements of solidarity for the victims at Nova from all tge music festivals? Jewish people tbis year and last felt they could not participate in Pride and held their own events because of the lu acy of the queers for Palestine contingent.
The artist Caren Garfen had been a member of a high profile art group for many years. When she sent an embroidery about 7 October for one of their displays it was rejected. You can see her work on instagram.
I coukd list many, many more examples.

@TaraTomsmum You were being more combative than the people you were speaking to.

Most of the pro Israel people on these threads understand very well that it’s a complex issue and do not absolve BN of all responsibility. Above all we all feel sorry for any innocent civilians caught up in the war but ultimately, most people who bother to post do take one “side” or the other. We all have an interest in the war which may be recent or may be long standing but probably none of us understand every nuance.

Anyway, enjoy your holiday.

I believe everything you say. And it sickens me.

I watched an interview where Douglas Murray explained how missing dog posters don't get torn down but missing posters of people, children and babies are being defaced and ripped down. This is what he was talking about.

I feel like I'm in an alternative reality of lunacy the more I learn.

Douglas Murray - Tommy Robinson in a suit with an Eton education with clipped vowels. Just back from Glastonbury - best one ever then it always is. One could almost think he wants to starts the race war that he spends his time warning about. A deeply sinister dangerous character with big, big money behind him as well. "By their fruits ye shall know them,"

s

So pp explained how Douglas Murray talked about the hostage posters being torn down and your response is that he’s Tommy Robinson in a suit? Does that make what he said about the posters untrue?
Doesn‘t matter who it is talking about it, ripping down and defacing hostage posters is despicable, surely?

Well quite. He was right about the posters wasn't he and that happens to be what the pp was listening to? I think he's wrong about other things. So what? My life's too short to listen to that clip, it never seemed to be going anywhere.

He was right about the celebration of what was essentially a pogrom too.

Anyway back on topic - the original Bob (nee Zimmermman) was even stronger in his condemnation of the warmongers but more poetic as befits the Bard.

Glasto in 98? Saw him at the fleadh in 93 and it was a hard listen even then.
Not like you go to a music festival for the music I suppose.

I didn't realise he has written a "cryptic" pro-Israel song - no wonder he got the Nobel Prize as a song writer and poet there has been none better - in latter days he would have been better retiring but he keeps on keeping on and why not.

Neighborhood Bully
Song by Bob Dylan ‧ 1983

Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man
His enemies say he's on their land
They got him outnumbered about a million to one
He got no place to escape to, no place to run
He's the neighborhood bully.
The neighborhood bully he just lives to survive
He's criticized and condemned for being alive
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
He's the neighborhood bully.
The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
He's wandered the earth an exiled man
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
He's always on trial for just being born
He's the neighborhood bully.
Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
He's the neighborhood bully.
Well, the chances are against it, and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
He's the neighborhood bully.
Well, he got no allies to really speak of
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
He's the neighborhood bully.
Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He's the neighborhood bully.
Every empire that's enslaved him is gone
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
In bed with nobody, under no one's command
He's the neighborhood bully.
Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract that he signed was worth that what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
He's the neighborhood bully.
What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothing, they say. He just likes to cause war
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
They wait for this bully like a dog waits for feed
He's the neighborhood bully.
What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
Running out the clock, time standing still
Neighborhood bully.

This is nonsensical. There is a difference between commentary in a song and whipping up a crowd to chant death to somebody. And before anyone trues to obfuscate BobVylan's act by claiming it was a sort of generaliard call for peace do dig out the clip of him specifically calling for the death of 'every single member' of the IDF. The people that give their lives to keep the only democracy in the Middle East safe.

Well I never - another one of my all time favourites Hans Zimmer speaks out and he's not one normally to be political if my memory serves me right - unless you count "Now We Are Free from Gladiator". The cry is becoming a scream.

He has since deleted the tweet.

https://jewishjournal.com/culture/arts/129526/

And Rod fucking Stewart who has said give Farage a chance - there must be something in the water.

https://archive.ph/xQLfF

A country that is established on the memory of the ghettos, which only a few days ago sanctified that memory, hides its face from the much larger ghetto that it built with its own hands and doesn’t want to see, one hour from the center of that country. A country that was established in a bloody struggle will not recognize the justness of the struggle of another people and wonders whether that people even exists. A society that considers itself exemplary, which was established on the world’s indifference to its suffering, shows monstrous heartlessness to the suffering it is causing.

“What were they before?” a woman asked me Friday in a lecture I gave in Tel Aviv. And what were we? What have we become?

Gideon Levy, Ha’aretz
5th May 2019

Why are you sharing blatant antisemitism in the form of holocaust inversion?

Because it's from the Daily Telegraph not the Der Stürmer - I suggest you take it up with Sir Rod who said it.

In Feb 2024 a track topped the Israeli charts; it called for Dua Lipa & Bella Hadid and Mia Khalifa to be killed for their ‘pro-Palestinian’ stances alonf with Hamas. Some of the reporting suggests the rap split public opinion in Israel. Sounds familiar…

Quite catchy if you like that sort of thing and of course they should be free to sing it and publicise it. Though I'm not sure my near namesake deserves it tbh.

Mint press news are blatantly antisemitic.