Why do you get all the knobs at Glastonbury? (Part 2)

[HellsBalls]

Bob Vylan crying in their cornflakes after having their US visas revoked.
This is pretty serious as one ESTA question is ‘Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa you applied for with your current or previous passport, or have you ever been refused admission to the United States or withdrawn your application for admission at a U.S. port of entry?’

So no US work or holidays in the future for them.

Also three festivals have dropped them, so far.

Freedom of speech yes, freedom from the consequences, no.

I’m glad we have some common ground.

I suppose my follow up would be what are limits of our ally-ship with Israel?

There are numerous serious allegations against the IDF and by extension the government of Israel. The first most most recent examples that come to mind are the killing of Paramedics on March 23rd,whistleblowers accounts of mistreatment of prisoners, firing into the crowds recently at aid distribution centres. The one that really got me was early on in the conflict when the small girl in the car surrounded by her dead family was killed despite calls to the IDF informing them of the situation.

There are many such examples and the IDF prevent access to those whose job it is to investigate them properly.

At what point do we tell ally that enough is enough and stop supporting such a military? To my mind it was evident that our government had a responsibility to act sooner and by not doing so it makes us all complicit in something intolerable. That is why I will always support those protesting about the situation and resist the implication that this is necessarily antisemitism. And I find the suppression of protest in this situation to have extremely dangerous implications for our democracy.

Oh, ok.

Next time maybe make it clear that ‘to me it’s a slur against all white people’?

The way you phrased it was that I was using it in the wrong context, which of course, for me, I wasn’t.

@Chipboard it would be interesting if we could interview the Free Palestine Glasto warriors; stunning and brave as they are. I'd like to know the depth and understanding of the conflict from their perspective.

Why don't they go over there if they're so upset for the Palestinian people and offer hands on support to the effort?

It feels so utterly vacuous and frustrating because the sense for many of us, is that these people don't fully appreciate the extent of what's going on, the wider implications of say ' free Palestine' and are probably clueless to what it truly would mean. And it's often a type spouting this stuff. And it's annoying because it feels like stupidity from the same be nice quarters.

I don't know enough in detail at all myself.

£400 a ticket is grotesque. It does feed into the stereotype unfortunately.

What utter nonsense. So unless you’re willing to go an fight personally, you should shut up and sit down?

£400 a ticket is grotesque to you. I find £150 a ticket for a single stadium gig grotesque, but set against that, £385 for 5 days of music, art, poetry, discussion, circus, performance and DJs across goodness knows how many stages and tents is a fucking bargain.

I can see that you have very strong, entrenched views about the Middle East, and come at it from an Islam v Judaism standpoint. I don’t think we will find any common ground, so I’ll leave you to your sneering.

Yes I have quite firm views. I don't want anything representing Islam proliferating to the West. I don't like it, I don't want it. It can fuck right off. Is that clear enough for you.

I don't sneer. I simply don't like it. The correct word is actually scary. I find it scary. Scary that I believe so many have no clue what they're protesting for. Like the lady who is now all over TV singing along to ' death to the IDF' in her yellow flower hat🤦 I have sympathy as I believe she was possibly caught up in a moment and didn't know what was going on.

When people take it to the next level, it's a bit scary to me. It's a question of ' do you have any idea what this means and what you're asking for'. Yes, if they pop over there, they will possibly get first hand understanding. Not a bad idea.

I see the conflict is very much a religious war. I understand Israel is the only homeland as such to the Jewish nation. When one asks at what costs supporting Israel, I would say this is the underpinning issue. How would the loss of the only Jewish state and what that represents impact us.

I’m so confused? I literally said ‘it’s weird to me’

To a lot of people you are using it in the wrong context.

And by your logic, shouldn’t your response have been ‘No it isn’t. It’s an insult to racist white people for me’ ?

As you yourself said you probably weren’t using it in the same context in the 90s - I’m going to go out on a limb and saying you didn’t use the word at all in 90s.

You didn’t realise it’s also been used as a general slur for many years. It’s fine.

I don't want anything representing Judaism proliferating to the West.

Now imagine if this was said instead. Do you think this is an acceptable statement?

Yes, absolutely if there's good reason to say so.

I am an Atheist so I don't ascribe to any religion personally. I dislike religion. I however especially dislike Islam.

Edit to add - I was raised Roman Catholic. Was the proliferation of Catholicism grotesque and not welcome for so many, including Native Americans at one point? Yes, understandably it was. I wouldn't have liked that. I now reject that religion and ascribe to none as mentioned.

So you’re against all proliferation of Islam but you’re ok with Judaism? What form? The extremes of all major religions are extremely problematic for women in particular but also gays and non-believers.

I don’t think any religion should have a place in determining the laws or regulations of modern society.

11:31

It’s a slur against white people in general.

HTH.

Starmer and co can sit and say that they see no breaches in International law, that it's fine to keep profiting off arms to blow up kids, to actively help the country shooting the people they are currently starving. This is a million times worse than anything Bob Vylan has said.

Until the people screeching about a man on a stage saying words start screeching about the man running the country making a profit off dead kids then I will presume they either have an alterior motive or they are rage baiters.

No, not Hamas. The poor Palestinian civilians. You do understand there’s a difference, don’t you?

Hamas are indefensible monsters and should be destroyed completely.

Persecuting an entire population isn’t the way to do that.

The same “Poor Palestinians” who went on the rampage with no provocation cutting unborn babies out of stomachs while small children looked on,

Stop spreading misinformation and propaganda. What happened on Oct 7 was bad enough without you making up gruesome stories.

I'm no fan of Starmer. I actually sit nowhere because I don't know enough or more accurately feel aligned with any of them.

If you're referencing to it being a distraction us screeching here? Well there are pressing national issues I agree we should focus on. A bit like the people at Glastonbury holding their Palestine flags perhaps? No better cause to champion?

@Chipboard
'I don’t think any religion should have a place in determining the laws or regulations of modern society.' -

Yes, it would be better if this wasn't how it is.

We have approximately 85 Sharia Courts operating in this Country at present.

That’s where you’re mistaken. It wasn’t just Hamas members who committed those atrocities. It was also regular Palestinians, many in their teens.

So? They don’t hold any power over anyone who doesn’t want to accept their rulings and they don’t supersede UK law.

If a subset of society wants to abide by their rulings, fine. I think it’s madness but it doesn’t affect me. When it does we’ll have a problem - but that isn’t going to happen until we become an Islamic country.

Currently 6.5% of the uk population identifies as Muslim. 46% are Christian and 37% no religion, so we’ve got a long way to go before we need to worry.

According to which non-partisan source?

‘Ordinary people’ have purportedly committed war crimes in their IDF uniforms, too.

edited: no idea if teens are implicated in the alleged war crimes so changed to ‘ordinary people’

The government making a profit from dead kids should in most civilised societies be a pressing issue.

No, it's literally not "the same Palestinians". It's very telling that you lump all Palestinians together and add quotes to "people" when talking about them. Once you are at that point, I don't know what else can be said.

It doesn’t

I wouldn’t call my attitude ‘sneering’. I’m cynical / sceptical about Glasto activists, yes. Yes I am.

I haven’t said anything about Israel/Palestine. I don’t have that conversation on Internet forums or social media. Pointless. I’m not interested in cheering on the IDF obliterating Gaza OR Hamas/The supreme Leader/Other Jew-Haters like it’s Millwall versus fucking West Ham.

But why?

You haven’t given any indication as to why you are so sceptical so it seems based on nothing.

which to me reads like sneering.

Oh well, not much else I can say.

You told me I was using the word wrong, I disagreed.

Then we both agreed words mean different things at different times and places.

The end.

It would be good to understand why are they protesting? Why are the people at Glastonbury waving Palestine flags?

Why this?