To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen in over 20 years? (thread 2)

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel has been found to be committing genocide in Gaza by legal teams from the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel has deliberately attacked MSF ambulances and clinics and the World Central Kitchen killing overseas volunteers including a British army vet.
See Amnesty video explaining below

Jewish-American Dr. Mark Perlmutter on what he saw in Gaza and why he believes it's deliberate genocide (warning - heart breaking)
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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ia9sa0iuwHw

On average one child is being killed every 45minutes. Over 100 were killed 18th and 19th March alone. There has been a total blockade preventing entry of food or medicine since the start of March.

Israel is an apartheid state according to the ICJ, UN, B'Tselem, Yesh Din, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch.

The British government is supporting Israel in this genocide with military recon flights and arms. Our government did not stop supporting White Apartheid South Africa until it was forced to by British people's outrage, and by the global boycott. It is time to do the same again to show that we do not accept genocide and that we really do stand by the values of international humanitarian law.

Because if we say anything, were accused of being antisemitic...

Israel meanwhile has been systematically abusing and torturing the Palestinian hostages it holds from before and after Oct. 7th
Before:
Josh Paul US State dept received credible info of a 15 yr old raped in Israeli military jail. They asked the Israeli govt to investigate - the next day the Israeli army raided the NGO that had reported it and declared it a "terrorist organisation". His interview is on YouTube.

Save the Children July 2023 report showed Israel routinely abused, including sexual abuse, the child hostages they held in military prisons.

https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/2023/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-of-palestinian-children-detained-by-israeli-military

There's loads of testimony from hostages describing the absolutely horrendous conditions they were held in and the terrible things they endured - you just aren't looking for it. Anyone can find sources that support just one 'side'. The conflict is so much more nuanced than you seem to want to acknowledge.

Of course since Oct. 7th things have gone completely insane. Israeli NGO report on the horrific torture and abuse that is ROUTINE in Israeli jails below. 60 Palestinian detainees have been killed while in custody ie tortured to death including a 17 yr old and 48yr old Adnan Al-Bursh head of Orthopedic surgery who was taken away by soldiers, screams heard for hours, then staggered back into the prison courtyard naked from the waist down and bleeding profusely having been anally raped with various objects. He died within hours and Israel still hasn't released his body.

https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408_welcome_to_hell

@MNHQ why has this thread been moved out of AIBU again? There are at least 3 Ukraine threads and a lot more Trump threads on there. Please can this thread about a genocide that the UK is complicit in be reinstated to AIBU

Shocked and so sad

I'm very open to sources. I often ask for them, repeatedly. I do not claim that no hostage was tortured because it is possible that some were. But I am challenging the mainstream media reporting and the comments on here which imply that all the hostages were tortured by those brown barbarian Arabs. Because there is a lot of evidence to the contrary.
I am very open to sources, always happy to read facts and evidence.
Nuance, sure. But Israel is committing genocide as per the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch - that's a legal term not a nuance. Israel is an Apartheid state as per the UN Amnesty Human Rights Watch B'Tselem Yesh Din etc etc. also a legal term not a nuance. Our media does not report these very important facts for some reason, so I am providing balance to their narrative.

Meanwhile - what are your thoughts on the evidence of Israel routinely torturing hostages including children, before and after Oct.7th 2023? (Evidence all linked above from reputable NGOs)

I think it's disgusting and should be condememed. You see, it's easy to see both sides of a conflict.

...but it's not being condemned. Which is the whole point of this thread. Hamas is rightly condemned and sanctioned.. Israel should be sanctioned for its war crimes and genocide and apartheid.
I can see both sides - I've been to both sides. I can see both sides of Jim Crow and South African apartheid and anti-feminism - but one of those sides was quite wrong

In fact, if the international community had actually upheld the rule of law and condemned/sanctioned Israel for its ongoing land theft, apartheid, hostage taking and child killing, two decades ago, the Palestinians would not have been driven into the arms of Hamas and Oct. 7th would not have happened. That is what Antonio Gutierrez meant when he said Oct. 7th didn't happen in a vacuum. Hamas is rightly sanctioned for its war crimes. It is now high time that Israel is sanctioned for its war crimes which predated October 7th and predated Hamas, and for its current genocide. That means the UK, US, EU ending arms sales and funding, sporting cultural and academic boycott just like those against apartheid South Africa, until Israel is forced to reform itself.

On a lighter note, here are some snippets of the Israeli army ("the most moral army in the world") taken from their very own video feeds, and there are loads and loads and loads of these photos and videos of them rifling through the belongings of displaced or killed Palestinians, wearing lingerie while calling the Palestinian women sluts and whores, defacing and destroying kids' toys. This is the stuff they're proud of doing.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-soldiers-play-with-gaza-womens-underwear-online-posts-2024-03-28/

Another interview from the amazing Dr.s Mark Perlmutter and Feroze Sidhwa. Perlmutter is president of the world trauma surgery federation and wore his Star of David while saving lives in Gaza. Here he describes how his Palestinian medical colleagues were treated by Israel:

". I have an orthopedic surgeon colleague here who was taken out of the operating room.
His fingers were crushed. they showed him a picture of his wife from a spy, not from a magazine or an old photo, and had metadata and said it was taken the day before up close and said, we're going to bring her here in front of you and we're going to gang rape her in
front of you if you don't admit that you're Hamas or we'll keep breaking your fingers. He still didn't admit he was Hamas. And they said, well, then we're going to send a drone through your bedroom window and incinerate your children. And he still wouldn't admit he was Hamas.
They beat him every time he asked to speak to a lawyer and beat him twice as hard after he spoke to his lawyer. And he spent 11 months in prison having probes inserted up his rectum by female IDF members who said that the probe was soaked in pork blood."

https://zeteo.com/p/us-embassy-tells-us-doctor-in-gaza

Are you horrified by Hamas slaughtering Israel civilians including women and children and babies?

Of course that's why they're a sanctioned proscribed group. Israel should also be sanctioned for its genocide and war crimes and Apartheid, and for the policy of child killing and child abduction which they have implemented for decades before Oct. 7th.

Hamas are indefensible. They did not, though, behead or burn babies or any of the other nonsense propaganda (disproven by Israeli media 2 weeks after the attack). One baby was killed on Oct. 7th by indiscriminate gunfire into a room, a war crime. Some of the children killed on Oct. 7th were killed by Israeli army fire (I think the UN report found at least 7 such cases). See Yasmin Porat survivor interview on Israeli radio.

Interested in how you feel about these videos of Palestinian children @ThisNattyTurtle.

Do you not agree that Palestinian children have been abused for decades, seemingly unchecked by all the NGO’s and the UN orgs on the region?

You can call it Israeli propaganda all you like but there’s no denying the fact that this has been happening.

https://x.com/IDF/status/1197243789125017600

This is a longer video of the first bit of the one above to give more context filmed in 2019 or before:
https://x.com/koshercockney/status/1899847143105421369

https://x.com/IDF/status/1899779795392573540

https://x.com/JewsFightBack/status/1907433809488052438

Anyone who cares about Palestinian children should care about this.

It in no way justifies children being killed in this war. It does lend credence to children being used as pawns for the Palestinian cause.

They don’t even try to hide it.

If this was happening in any other country with such a large amount of international aid being funnelled into it, NGO and international monitoring, there would be global outrage, and long before now as it’s been going on for years.

Why isn’t there do you think?

As I have already said, I condemn Hamas and extremism. Extremism exists in every society including ours despite us not facing occupation - I don't think we'd accept being carpet bombed to be rid of it. We are bankrolling and arming lethal well-armed Israeli extremism while sanctioning Palestinian (weaker, less effective) extremism.

Poverty and oppression drive more people in a population towards extremists -see Soweto, segregationist USA and the Black Panthers, etc.

Israeli society is full of extremists who indoctrinate their children to hate, I will give just a couple examples. A member of Knesset was caught on video 10 years ago asking her 5yr old what he wanted to do when he grows up and saying "well done good boy!!" When he said "drive a jeep and kill Arabs". It's on YouTube. The woman is still a member of Knesset free to visit any country in the.world and receiving arms and funding from the UK and US.

Here are some lovely sweet-looking Israeli school kids singing about - the need to annihilate Gaza and "purify it through blood"
I mean think how many ppl were involved to write the song, teach the song, make the shiny high quality video, and distribute it. It's not exactly a secret is it?

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Israeli illegal settlers (violent nutjobs who choose to live outside Israel on the 22% of land supposed to be Palestine, ie land thieves) frequently attack schools and schoolchildren including stoning and beating them
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https://youtube.com/shorts/RbjAkKM3tL4?si=JfnVn_N4xOujCOZ3

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Just some examples of Israeli kids violently rioiting - but they're not throwing stones at an army they're stoning schoolchildren. This is 8 yrs ago.
Palestinian children have to walk from this West Bank village to the next one to get to primary school. Israeli settlers set up an illegal outpost near their route and would come each morning and throw rotten food, grab children, throw stones. Ongoing for years. Israeli court ordered Israeli soldiers to protect these kids - but when I walked the route with them many years ago, the army jeep just drove ahead and turned a blind eye to whatever the settlers did. As a grown adult I was terrified. Another foreign observer on that route was very badly beaten by Israeli settlers while the army did nothing. What if that was your morning walk to primary school, every day?? What would you feel about the people attacking you?? What would you do when you grew up?

@CrunchyKnees I find it interesting that in response to multiple reputable NGOs finding that Israel is committing war crimes and genocide (including child abduction and torture), you bring propaganda videos from - the army accused of genocide.

Palestinian extremism is already condemned and widely so. Israeli extremism is not despite it killing many more people before Oct. 7th and now fueling a genocide, as per the UN, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch

For those reading this and think"oh God both sides are as bad as each other how do we solve it it's too complex" - look at what Amnesty are saying, what Human Rights Watch are saying, the UN are saying, what Raz Segal and Omer Bartov are saying. The two sides are not equal. Israel is committing genocide and apartheid (the latter long before Oct 7th) according to teams of international humanitarian law experts. It's time we stopped funding and arming these atrocities.

Hamas are evil just like the IDF and don’t care about the population. The IDF are even
worse, look at their body count. Don’t know what the father is saying but if it’s an accurate translation and the audio hasn’t been altered then it’s terrible.

The last video of the child though looks to be AI generated - there are differences between hand and face and the child has that filtered quality a lot of AI generated people have.

In terms of the child saying Hamas told the IDF that it was told to go to the border, I have no doubt Hamas would do such a thing they have form for treating the population terribly. The IDF are not a credible source though given that they have a whole government department and section of the army dedicated to changing people’s opinions on the war. There needs to be independent verification on these things - as you keep saying “show us some proof”.

Using the Israel government’s twitter as a source would be like us linking to a Hamas twitter feed as “proof” of a crime - it is biased. You need independent publications and organisations that have no skin in the game to verify these things.

It may have been discussed at length on previous threads but as you started this thread, I'm interested in your opinion?

Thank god for the IDF protecting these Palestinian children!

Can you imagine a scenario where Hamas, or a Hamas court, or Palestinian civilians even, protected Israeli kids in a similar situation?

Israeli kids, or even adults, could not walk through or near a Palestinian village AT ALL without serious risk of death or kidnap.

Too right, both sides are not as bad as each other and both sides are certainly not equal.

One is a sick death cult only interested in wiping out their neighbours, the other a democracy who actually gives something positive to the world.

You have proven me right in that you don’t actually care about Palestinian children with your dismissal of the abuse they are brought up in.

Op unfortunately alot of ppl refuse to accept the Israeli government was abusing the Palestinians before the oct attack. These ppl have been treated like animals for many many years and now unfortunately for the innocent civilians on both sides hamas are behaving in the worst way imagineable. Alot of the national agencies repeatedly back these claims up of historical abuse towards the Palestinians by the Israeli government and settlers but , the west doesn't see the Palestinians as humans either. There is no justification for the oct attack, unfortunately this act of terror was always inevitable in people who are not treated as humans. The Israeli government takes 'prisoners' but hamas takes hostages, Israeli government calls settlers who are violent towards Palestinians as hero's, hamas are regarded as terrorists. Unfortunately they all the same disgusting acts against innocent civilians. Innocent civilians on both sides.