To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen in over 20 years? (thread 2)

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel has been found to be committing genocide in Gaza by legal teams from the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel has deliberately attacked MSF ambulances and clinics and the World Central Kitchen killing overseas volunteers including a British army vet.
See Amnesty video explaining below

Jewish-American Dr. Mark Perlmutter on what he saw in Gaza and why he believes it's deliberate genocide (warning - heart breaking)
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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ia9sa0iuwHw

On average one child is being killed every 45minutes. Over 100 were killed 18th and 19th March alone. There has been a total blockade preventing entry of food or medicine since the start of March.

Israel is an apartheid state according to the ICJ, UN, B'Tselem, Yesh Din, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch.

The British government is supporting Israel in this genocide with military recon flights and arms. Our government did not stop supporting White Apartheid South Africa until it was forced to by British people's outrage, and by the global boycott. It is time to do the same again to show that we do not accept genocide and that we really do stand by the values of international humanitarian law.

Does anyone know who the woman hamas put in Shiri Bibas casket was? I think hamas dehumanise their own.

Hamas isn’t the entire Palestinian population so you can’t claim them as “there own”

any more than all Jews are the same as the Israeli government

The good news is that the tide amongst European leaders and in the media seems to have finally made a minuscule turn against the actions of the Israeli government.

The bad news is that our governments still continue to trade with and sell arms to these war criminals.

Well you’ve sadly proved the point there- why do we know the name of the Israeli but not the Palestinian?
And after a bombardment from Israeli forces- possibly using a ‘bunker buster’ bomb or even white phosphorus- how would it be possible to tell one person from another? It’s total dehumanisation when the weapons you’re using are designed to absolutely annihilate human beings .

Are you joking?
We know the name of the Israeli woman because the Israeli government and people were clear about who'd been taken hostage.
We dont know the name of the Palestinian woman who was put in the coffin in place of Shiri because Hamas used her body to further torture Yarden and by extension all Israelis.
This example shows nothing apart from the utter evilness of Hamas and it blows my mind you can't see that. Surely you can see that?

Whilst I appreciate your thoughtful summary of the complexities. I completely agree.

I do think it is ridiculous to think Gazans can oust Hamas. They are just like us. Albeit probably more extreme but bear with me for the explanation.

I assume Hamas there is everywhere. Like the far right is here to varying degrees. It’s bob in the pub spouting nonsense. George your plumber who thinks xyz. Old Gerald whos been watching too many YouTube videos down certain rabbit holes and Nigel Farage on the tele.

Are people really expecting normal gazans to do what? Trot down the pub and round up bob? Have a witch hunt for thought crimes on George and grab Gerald while we are at it. Or are we going after Farage et al types and if so how are normal people supposed to find them. And do what with them?

And tbh this situation probably proves some of their theories right. ‘They want to kill us all’ “Eradicate us’ etc etc. I have no idea if thats what they are saying but I assume thats what underlines the extremism as is basic human nature.

Even if gazans where inclined to go on an internal ‘cleanse’ to somehow remove these sectors of society (which is completely ridiculous idea as it wouldn’t happen here). They are hardly going to be focusing on that when they and there children are dieing and they can’t get food or have a home. I am sure energy expenditure is being used on hour to hour immediate life threatening situations; like food, water, safety and shelter. And rest when they get a chance!

My take would be that not everyone can see that Palestinians are human beings. Some people as a result of dehumanisation see them as lower than dogs and unworthy of life. They see all Palestinians as Hamas. There’s no in between. No innocent civilians. Just terrorists. When you see a minority and unworthy of life it becomes far easier to justify the mass murder of tens of thousands of them.

Hamas are the de-facto government of gaza, they are responsible for their people - as any government is expected to be.
Admittedly they are a bit shit at it.

Whoever was holding Shiri also managed to find her within - was it 24 hours? So it is possible to identify someone.

And I agree with pp that the treatment this woman received was inhuman. No one knows her name. Hamas basically unnamed her. No one should be treated like that.

Your argument is that because hamas’ actions justify how 82% of those who have been killed were civilians?

The treatment all Palestinians are receiving is inhuman.
I just cannot deal with arguing with people on here who come to defend the actions of the Israeli government any more. It is absolutely bizarre. If someone had told me a couple do years ago that people would be online defending apartheid and war crimes and the bombing of schools and hospitals I wouldn’t have believed it and that was even after seeing what the Israeli government meted out on Palestine in the summer of 2014. I still could not have believed that people could sink so low in their defence of a far right genocidal government

Israel obliterated her so I hardly think Hamas were the issue

Absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Hamas aren't the issue? That woman would have still been alive if it hadn't been for Hamas' atrocious actions on 7 October.
So much struggling with the simple fact that actions have consequences.

Well, dont come on here and post then. No one is making you.

Er..no.
I pointed out that hamas dehumanise Gazans and that Gazans are 'their' people in a governmental sense.

However I also think hamas should surrender, give up the hostages they hold and either disarm (because their neighbours, including Egypt don't trust them) or stand down and cede governance to moderates who will co-exist with Israel, (under an acceptably Arab/UN interim protectorate).

Their foreign based leadership seems to want them to fight to the last man, woman and child and they're (Gazan civilians) understandably pissed off about this and risking their (Gazan civilians) lives resisting hamas. The least the pro-palestinians safely away from the combat zone could do would be to support them in getting a government that cares about their (Gazan civilians) welfare more than the destruction of their neighbour state.

You assume. I'm not privy to where hamas kept the bodies of the Bibas family and who else they might have there.

Give it up, everyone in the world knows this didn’t all start on October 7th

If you believe Hamas, 82%. However they are not to be believed.
Remember the ‘700 killed by Israeli rocket attack on Al-Ahli Arab Hospital’? Which ended up at 70 dead and it was a Palestinian defective rocket which killed them.

This war did. Most of us are also aware of the sectarian violence in the region that goes beyond living memory. Many of us can see the attempts to delegitimise all Israelis as foreign invaders for what they are too.

This stat actually came from the israeli news outlet HaMakom HaKhi Ham

And they lie about journalists that they deliberately target and murder.

Well yeah when Israeli forces attack Gaza and the West Bank they are foreign invaders - same as when Russia invaded the Ukraine.

Why did Israel attack Gaza this time?
Incidentally since you've dragged the west bank into this, was Jordan a foreign invader when it annexed the west bank?