To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen in over 20 years? (thread 2)

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel has been found to be committing genocide in Gaza by legal teams from the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel has deliberately attacked MSF ambulances and clinics and the World Central Kitchen killing overseas volunteers including a British army vet.
See Amnesty video explaining below

Jewish-American Dr. Mark Perlmutter on what he saw in Gaza and why he believes it's deliberate genocide (warning - heart breaking)
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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ia9sa0iuwHw

On average one child is being killed every 45minutes. Over 100 were killed 18th and 19th March alone. There has been a total blockade preventing entry of food or medicine since the start of March.

Israel is an apartheid state according to the ICJ, UN, B'Tselem, Yesh Din, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch.

The British government is supporting Israel in this genocide with military recon flights and arms. Our government did not stop supporting White Apartheid South Africa until it was forced to by British people's outrage, and by the global boycott. It is time to do the same again to show that we do not accept genocide and that we really do stand by the values of international humanitarian law.

Amnesty calling on the UK govt to stop its complicity on genocide

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/actions/restart-ceasefire-now?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=MAEN523T_AFR_CRSS_IsraelApartheid_CeasefireLeadGen&utm_content=c_br_l6_C19&utm_term=120218456103960753&fbclid=IwY2xjawJY92xleHRuA2FlbQEwAGFkaWQBqxoOVgdCYQEdBHKsDIJ9-m7mAyDCaDw8NcGnAKa5pGUQS0lGLlFlL3pzDYBgYh53yndh_aem_GulkNyh3Y1KyFtxGBeI6Ag&utm_id=120218454764150753_v2_s12_e6966#

If you think that murdering children is a positive thing then I am seriously worried about you. So glad I don't know you in real life.

Hamas is the worst thing that has happened to Gazans and the Palestinian cause. They are extremists and terrorists, funded from nefarious states.
They are well known as murderers of their own people - happy to use civilians as cover, murder political opposition etc etc.

Even the (hated) state of Israel has respect for women, political opposition, minorities... within their own state.

The only realistic chance of a long lasting peace is one without Hamas.

In Beit Lahiya the Gazan population are now rising up against Hamas. That shows things are changing in Gaza. Brave people to stand up against a group famed for murder of political opposition.

The discourse needs to move on from Israel being the only "bad" actor here. Gaza needs moderates who will respect that Israel as a land of Jews and other non-muslim minorities exists, and has always existed, in some form or another.

Instead we just get endless one sided vitriol.

Wars are always horrific. That's history and reality.

But long term peace generally comes only if either one side is completely destroyed - or some kind of stable equilibrium evolves.

Since 2006 there was some kind of stable equilibrium. That ended on Oct 7. It needs to be regained.

Israel's resolve is moderating and opposition forming to their govt and similarly Gazans are seeing Hamas as a problem. Both societies are slowly seeing the need for peace.

One can hope.

The secular Palestinian authority in the West Bank renounced armed resistance in 1993 and agreed to the 2-state solution in which Israel gets to keep 78% of historic Palestine, and the Palestinians get to build a state on 22% (the West Bank+ Gaza + East Jerusalem).
Since 1993 til Oct. 6th 2023, Israel subjected the West Bank to child killing, an Oct. 7th every 1-2 years in numbers, child and adult abduction (700 children aged 12+ per year put through military court with a 98% conviction rate without parental or legal visits - UNICEF child detainees OPT 2013, Save the Children 2019), violent land theft by the increasing no. Of illegal Israeli settlers (700,000 now) who deliberately go and live inside the 22% left to Palestinians under international law.
There was no ceasefire before Oct. 7th unless by ceasefire you mean a situation in which Israel could kill Palestinians with impunity but no Israelis got killed.
So given the above, please explain Israel's actions in the West Bank.

Israel bombed Gaza 4 times from 2006 to Oct. 6th, and had it under total siege by land air and sea.

This is not a Hamas Vs Israel conversation and the only reason people keep making it that is to avoid answering some very difficult questions about why our ally is shooting handcuffed paramedics in the head and bulldozing their ambulances.
Answer that
We're not funding Hamas we're finding the paramedic killers.

Good grief.

Before the 1930s indigenous Arab Jews, Christians, Druze, Muslims, Armenians, all lived in peace in Palestine. The initial waves of European Jewish immigrants (fleeing persecution by Christian Europeans) were welcomed by Palestinians, given land and lodging in many cases. The Jewish population of Palestine rose from 4% to over 30% in about 15 years, and then it became apparent that the plan was to establish a Jewish majority state on half of the land (contrast that with 6.5% muslims in the UK over 60 years and the intense panic and pearl-clutching). That's when Palestinian opposition began.
Do you see any European country voluntarily giving up land for foreigners to build an exclusive state on? Even the country that carried out the Holocaust? Nope, their solution was to take land from an inferior brown people and give it to Jews by way of reparation.
Read Ilan Pappe "the Ethnic cleansing of Palestine" or Avi Shlaim, British-Israeli and Oxford history Prof "Israel and Palestine".

From the latter - written before Israel's genocide started:
"Israelis look down on the Gaza Strip as a hotbed of political extremism and religious fanaticism. What Israelis tend to overlook is the part that they themselves have played in reducing the Gaza Strip to this sorry state. Only 146 square miles in size, Gaza is one of the most heavily populated areas on earth. It is home to a large number of refugees from the 1948 and the 1967 wars. Conditions in the refugee camps are an affront to civilised values. Yet side by side with this indescribable destitution and misery there existed affluent Jewish colonies, surrounded by barbed wire and heavily protected by the IDF. In 2005, there were 1.4 million Palestinians living in Gaza, and less than 8,000 Israelis. Yet the Israelis controlled 25 per cent of the territory and 40 per cent of the arable land. Not surprisingly, the Gaza Strip became a breeding ground for extremism, fanaticism and suicide bombers."

It’s completely hideous and I hate that our government support this killing in our names.

You’re extremely naive to think that Israel allowing a 2 state solution in the West Bank would solve the problem.

The Palestinian Authority are far from ‘pacifist’. They continue to offer a ‘pay for slay’ policy, whereby the families of any Palestinian terrorists that kill Israelis are given huge sums of money.

And Hamas would absolutely not ‘step down’, if granted the West Bank. They are an Islamic extremist terrorist organisation who are a proxy of the IRGC Islamist regime in Iran. Their desire, as they have repeatedly stated, is to destroy Israeli entirely and kill all Jews in the region. They believe fervently that the Middle East should consist of Islamic countries only.

if they are given the West Bank, then they will continue to shoot rockets into Israel and attempt to repeat October 7th style massacres. Except this time, they will be even geographically closer to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

There can be no peace sadly whilst Hamas continue to be in power. It’s inspiring seeing the brave Palestinians standing up to them recently, despite huge danger. Some have already been assassinated by Hamas for doing so tragically.

There was an account by an Irish surgeon in the Irish Times today, he went to Gaza during the ceasefire and was due to leave when the ceasefire was broken by Israel. He was in Nasser hospital when it was bombed. He said the majority of casualties and injured that were brought in were children under 14.

“The majority of cases arose from being shot or “blasted with shrapnel”, he said, including his youngest patient, about four months old, whose belly was pierced by shrapnel.

“I had an 18-month-old as well and when he came off the ventilator, he was crying for his mother and father and they were dead,” he said, adding that there are “scores” of children now orphaned in Gaza. Other children have been left paralysed, having suffered brain and spinal injuries.”
….

On his second-last night, last Tuesday, a family of five was brought in, he recalled. “They were shot by an Apache helicopter, one of the most sophisticated pieces of machinery in the world,” he said. While the mother suffered minor injuries, her two children, aged about four and five, were killed, he said, while her 11-year-old daughter and her husband suffered “severe injuries”. “The dad died later that night and we operated on the 11-year-old until about 3am. She’ll probably survive, but the chances are she’ll end up losing both of her legs and maybe one arm,” he said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2025/04/01/irish-surgeon-returns-from-gaza-every-night-there-were-more-children-brought-in-dead/

This is a country with sophisticated weapons and trained snipers that with all their training somehow hit more children than any other group. That is not an accident, that is an extermination.

A country that binds the arms and legs of paramedics, lines them against a wall and shoots each of them over 20 times then crushes and buries their ambulances to hide their war crimes. Targeting paramedics and doctors is to leave the population without medical care and hasten the populations demise, just as targeting journalists leaves them without anyone to bear witness, to bury their crimes beneath the sand.

It absolutely devistating and I have no idea why nobody is doing anything. I hope the uk will look back on this and feel immense shame for our inaction.

I no longer speak to anybody who supports Israel. I don't have time for such revolting people.

No government is interested because they all understand the only way towards peace is the eradication of Hamas.
The IDF are not indiscriminately killing children. They can prove they do targeted, intelligence lead strikes against the terrorists.

How can they prove it?
How are 2,000lb dumb bombs dropped on apartment blocks -targeted? How?
Do you think the American, Irish, British doctors who's testimony is on this thread are lying?
Do you think the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch are lying when they said it was a genocide?
Do you think B'Tselem is just lying when it describes how Israel is systematically torturing Palestinian detainees including sexual abuse and rape? (B'Tselem report "welcome to hell").
Please explain the medical and legal expert sources and evidence that you have used to refute the above.

People who support Israel are 'revolting'? What do you mean by 'suppprt'? Because if you mean support Israel's right to exist you are calling most Jewish people 'revolting'.

As for the "chance of peace once Hamas is gone" nonsense - the last true step towards peace was the Oslo accords in 1993. Arafat renounced armed resistance in 1988 and accepted the Israeli state and a Palestinian state to be formed on just 22% of historic Palestine. Yitzhak Rabin the Israeli PM who agreed to this 2-state solution (the same one all Western govts supposedly support) was assassinated by an Israeli law student ultra-nationalist who wanted a greater Israel. Democratic Israeli elections since then have returned ultra-nationalist hawk after hawk, including Ariel Sharon who was already proven by the UN to be culpable for the Sabra and Shatila massacres. Few months before he was elected he strong-armed his way into Al-Aqsa mosque compound with a troop of armed and booted bodyguards, a hugely provocative act which sparked the second intifada. He was democratically voted in.
Where is the Israeli partner for peace? Name one Israeli leader since Rabin who was actually prepared to withdraw the illegal settlements and honour the 2-state-solution.
The policy of illegal Israeli settlements (heavily subsidised by the state) is called "facts on the ground" IE talk peace but steal land at the same time.

The post didn't say Israel's right to exist, and no one on either thread has challenged Israel's right to exist. The thread is about Israel's genocide (as per the UN, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch) and to be honest the arguments being made in favour of genocide are revolting. They have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with racism, land theft and hegemony, just like Putin.

Before Hamas, Israel killed Rachel Corrie, Tom Hurndall and BBC cameraman James Miller. In every single case they either blamed the victim and/or claimed it was Palestinian action, but in each case photo documentation proved it to be deliberate Israeli targeting

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Stable equilibrium since 2006? What planet are you on. 2014 was a summer of horrific bombing and that’s just for a start.

The number are horrific and totally unacceptable. It’s not simply a case of “war is always horrific “. At least 322 children killed since Israel's new Gaza offensive, Unicef says https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0r5827dke1o

My own take would be people who support what the Israeli government are currently doing in the face of international condemnation.

Wow missed this one - how ludicrous. The figures that are quoted throughout this thread by those who support Palestinian’s right to life are from independent organisations. Israel’s figures are not verified by anyone other than Israel.

Also implying that those who believe the independently verified figures over the ones given by Israel are lacking in intelligence is ridiculous. Ireland has the most educated population in the EU, 56% of people have University degrees while the EU average is 35%. Ireland has shown strong opposition to Israel’s genocide with most of the population and politicians openly supporting Palestine. Those who read widely and look at a variety of sources can see that Israel is committing war crimes on a massive scale.

@ThisNattyTurtle “How are 2,000lb dumb bombs dropped on apartment blocks -targeted? How?”

Beacuse the terrorists have been identified as being in/under the building.
The IDF send warning by dropping a dud on the roof first, and they expect people to evacuate.
This is why there are so many videos of the buildings getting hit. Everyone knows which building and when.
That’s how.

Can you provide evidence via links of videos, not ‘testimonies’, showing the IDF binding the arms and legs of paramedics, lining them up against a wall, shooting them and crushing and burying their ambulances.

That would have taken some time and there are plenty of people with phones streaming videos and pictures non stop from Gaza so I’m sure someone must have caught at least a bit of it in this densely populated and very small area.

The IDF are the ones wearing uniforms so can be clearly distinguished from civilians and Hamas.

Also any videos of the Apache helicopter targeting kids?

Having a close relative who flew and operated the weapons on these, the operators are highly trained and are very precise. That just wouldn’t happen and didn’t.