Israeli army strapped wounded Palestinian to jeep

[pandasorous]

just going to leave this here....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjqq5n8911do

if you have nothing compassionate to say, feel free to move on and not comment on this thread. feel sick to my stomach

Did you not see the WW11 photo I posted of a jeep rigged as a makeshift ambulance ( when there were no normal ambulances in sight), the wounded men on stretchers, on a prepared platform - and how different it was, at the same time as having some similarities?

Even the IDF say this was not what they expect from their own and that they’ll investigate.

Fascinating interview with Ami Ayalon, former head of Shin Bet, the Israeli security service.

A rational man.

x.com/amanpour/status/1805295431355973645?s=46&t=tm415yZZZz0e-dE263leqA

And yet the settlements and Israeli occupation will sadly continue. And as long as it does, so too will Hamas and so too will the conflict because Israel will not stop until it apparently eradicates Hamas. But before Hamas, this was still continuing and countless times has Israel been accused of war crimes, and Israel will still continue to do so as long as Palestinians defend themselves from genocide. Which means that Israel doesn’t just want to eradicate Hamas, it’s a lot more than that. Israel has been continuing to expand West Bank settlements and its expansionist policies indicate that the only way to do so would be to displace even more Palestinians. 18-26 year olds will still be given free birthright visits to Israel, many youngsters will be indoctrinated and drafted into fighting for the Israeli military so when will this conflict ever end? Israel will never agree to a true peace process as long as Palestinians continue want to live in their homes or want to return to their homes.

Oh. I don't see many people who say the Israeli government are always right. Those that di are wrong. They aren't always right.

Are the lies I've posted them not important then, too? Shani Louk is sadly dead no matter how some pretend it was a lie. I've seen some very odd claims on here tonight. That's sad.

It is a current conflict. I'm well aware of the history but the declaration that Israel would take action against hamas after 7th October atrocious attack is why we are here now. This current situation with Gaza as it is now wouldn't have occurred if not for the actions of hamas and others on 7th October and I'm sure you know that.

Let me put it another way. If hamas didn't carry out 7th October would gaza be bombed, would thousands of people have died. You know the answer is no.

I'm sure there are many that want peace. Great. Your point is what exactly.

However, the US proposed ceasefire hasn't come about yet. As I said before Hamas wanted changes that were unworkable, I did share a link to that effect. Previously a poster suggested the Israeli government were the block. Not quite true though. They want hamas out of governance so they can't do a 7th October again.

@US2gether The only way to get peace is to hold Israel to account. There shouldn’t be a “partial” peace process. The same moral and legal standards that Hamas are judged by, so too must Israel. But somehow the focus just seems to be on Hamas and only its deplorable actions when in actual fact Israel will always have the final say. Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from genocide, Palestinian refugees should have the right to return to their homes. As long as Israel continues an illegal occupation and expands settlements, how can the peace process ever work? Hamas will say it’s defending its people and to rescue illegally detained prisoners and hostages and Israel will just use Hamas to justify an unjust and disproportionate and illegal war with unethical decision-making. Even if Hamas were not to exist, would Israel ever have peace when Palestinians defend their homes? Or will they continue to bulldoze innocent Palestinians and then act shocked when Palestinians start defending themselves and their homes? Would the response be proportionate or disproportionate, with all its funding as it has historically, has been? If there wasn’t a Hamas, in that vacuum where Israel has the iron fist, there would eventually be a push back from the Palestinians as it has already been happening so far. So clearly Israel will not stop.

Raping and kidnapping women and girls is not defending itself. Murdering scumbags deserve what they get. Killing Shani Louk a peace activist is not defending themselves.

Thankfully terrorist apologists rarely get listened to. A proscribed terrorist organisation. They need dismantling.

Of course they are. You seemed to misunderstand my point so I was just clarifying what I meant.

Actually the answer would have been yes. Israel would have provoked Hamas as it has many times in the past, be it beating children for throwing stones, bulldozing homes to expand settlements, kidnapping and detaining Palestinians etc., “repossessing” homes that are marked for destruction, destroying schools and hospitals. And again it’s not a current conflict as October 7th just didn’t happen out of the blue. As long as Palestinians live in Israel so too will the conflict. That’s just what it is.

Total rubbish.

There would not be thousands dead TODAY if 7th October didn't happen. Pure nonsense. Gazans wouldn't be in refugee camps if 7th October didn't happen.

Attacks wouldn't have been carried out. Pointless replying to you. Have you been drinking 🙄

@US2gether You clearly want to derail the thread. Even if Hamas was dismantled, Israel will not stop. Israel, as an actual state, needs to be held accountable and held to same moral and legal standards as Hamas. Palestinians do have the right to defend themselves from genocide. Palestinians should have the right to return to their homes. The Israeli military is investigating the incident mentioned in the OP. War crimes have been committed by Israel and even if Hamas were to be dismantled, Israel will still continue and to imply otherwise is being disingenuous. Conscientious objectors within Israel also want peace. Instead of young Israelis are still being drafted as this is a war that Bibi will not stop on the pretext of Hamas.

I'm merely replying to your claims (which are rubbish) that this current conflict (with thousands dead) would still occur without 7th October occurring.

Now you shout 'derail' when I reply to you. 🙄

I say again that rape is not resistance, rape is not defending themselves.

@US2gether Palestinians were already in refugee camps before October 7th. Where did the Palestinian refugees before October 7th come from? Did the settlements miraculously appear in Israel? You are continually trying to derail the thread. The Israeli military are going to investigate the incident mentioned in the OP. Palestinian refugees before and after October 7th have a right to return to their homes. Palestinians also have a right to defend themselves from genocide.

ETA: As you’re intent on derailing the thread, I have stated countless times that Israel needs to be held to the same moral and legal standards as Hamas and yet you keep on overlooking that and pushing your narrative when many Israelis are not happy with Bibi wanting to continue a war and October 7th didn’t start it all.

I'm replying to you, yet you suggest I'm derailing. Typical thread on these boards. Not allowed to reply otherwise accused of derailing. I agreed the claim needs investigating. I don't agree that rape is resistance or defending themselves when you go on that hamas are Palestinians defending themselves. I disagree with you, as I can in a democracy. I realise Palestinian people don't have that under Hamas though, sadly. An end to the war, new governance that doesn't think rape is defending themselves would help all round. A new Israeli government too. Mediation. Never rape and hostage taking. It doesn't achieve anything and its not defending themselves.

If you keep throwing things at me I tend to reply.

Never said an investigation wasn’t needed. What I did was challenge the long narrative a poster provided, where a lot of embellishment was added by the ‘victim’.

I never once said that rape is the same as resistance you’ve said that @US2gether many times. Just as you somehow tried to imply that I supported Hamas/its actions nor did I once say it was just justified to take hostages. You have cast a lot of aspersions and somehow acted as though you’re merely refuting my claims, hence my first thought of you trying to derail the thread. You also seem to be adamant that it was solely October 7th that led to Gazan refugee camps. There were already Palestinian refugee camps before October 7th. Were Hamas not to exist, there would still be an occupation, West Bank settlements would still be expanding.

Many Israelis and Palestinians want peace. Refugees who’ve lost their homes do have a right to return and Palestinians do have the right to protect themselves from genocide. War crimes committed by Israel must be investigated. Using Hamas as a pretext for war should never be justified.

Hamas and Israel must be held to the same moral and legal standards. If you don’t seem to understand that, I’m not sure I can help you.

I’ve watched it, thank you very much. I’d never have seen that. It is interesting to note that he thinks Netanyahu is just keeping himself in power at any cost.

If only people would listen to him. He quoted Admiral Daniel Hagari who said “To say we are going to make Hamas disappear — it’s simply throwing sand in the face of the public. Hamas is an idea, Hamas is a party. It’s rooted in the hearts of the people. Whoever thinks we can eliminate Hamas is wrong.”

Ami Ayalon is a reminder of the very best of Israel imo, which is something to hold on to for hope.

You implied that there were just his words and anyone who use the word victim in quotes thereby implying they’re not, this would indicate to me that you’ve made up your mind. And now you’re saying that there are embellishments which to me is not just victim blaming, it implies they’re not a victim.

Had Hamas attacked military or government buildings, there might have been some understanding globally. But they decided to behave like savages, and kidnapped, raped and murdered civilians who aren’t party to the decisions made by their government. It was cowardly, and Hamas were treated like heroes by the Palestinians. In the civilised world, you are not going to get any sympathy towards Hamas for their actions on 7th October.

@Livelovebehappy I find your name very ironic as you’ve kept on using the word victim in quotation marks which feels really icky. Please stop trying to cast aspersions
as I was not trying to gain sympathy from anyone and it seems as though you’re intent on twisting my words. Hamas and Israel must be held to the same moral and legal standards. Israel has been continuing to commit war crimes and it’s painfully obvious October 7th will has become a talking point to justify its horrific actions. Even without Hamas, Israel will continue its actions but obviously Hamas is just a pretext by Israel and its supporters who want to justify an illegal war and use Hamas as their shield.

That is right, but there is a wider view If you listen to that interview with Ami Ayalon (Israeli, former head of Shin Bet) posted by AhNowTed · Yesterday 22:46, even though AS himself said Oct 7 was probably the worst thing that had ever happened to Israel.

And yet the occupation will continue and Bibi will continue to just blame Hamas and add another talking point to justify his war, Israel will attack indiscriminately and disproportionately and the cycle of violence will continue whilst his supporters will nod their heads in agreement.

Unless the 76 percent against him, whom Ami Ayalon mentioned, rebel? Do you think there is any chance?