Just sick

[ideaspls]

Am still in disbelief five weeks later that this was allowed to happen.

how did the world just sit and watch as this was allowed to happen?

now disease will ravage the rest of the displaced population 😞

The Israeli government should be ashamed…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/28/deaths-from-disease-in-gaza-could-outstrip-deaths-from-war-un-says

The Israeli government is democratically elected. I don’t think much of our current government but I wouldn’t take kindly to other countries deciding it should be ‘got rid of’ other than at the ballot box.

I think the problem the Israeli establishment is facing is that Hamas have repeatedly broken ceasefires with unprovoked attacks. Their responsibility is to Israelis, they can’t protect Israelis with Hamas squatting there like a money sucking toad. Hamas is to Gazans (not that they think they are responsible, apparently because 75% are designated as refugees they are apparently the UN’s and Israels responsibility)

Leaving them in situ will mean another attack at some point and then Israel will go in and Hamas will say “look how they kill us” and then Israel will be pressured to withdraw a ceasefire will be declared and then Hamas will break that ceasefire and Israel will respond and hamas will say “look what the Israelis do” and then be pressured into withdrawing and then Hamas will break that ceasefire…. I mean how many generations can this go on for? The reason for the effective blockade of Gaza was repeated suicide attacks from Hamas in the first place.

Anyone not blaming Hamas for this is foolish, they want this, they invited it and they really don’t care about the death toll, they actually like high death tolls. I watched the second in command reel of deaths (sacrifices he called it) in various conflicts basically saying he was fine with however many sacrifices it takes. Most parties engaged in conflict try to protect their own people Hamas is one of the few exceptions.

I think Netanyahu’s government is appalling, I think settlers should be removed from the west bank, I don’t think kids should be in prison etc. I don’t think life is easy or fair for Palestinians, I think it’s brutal, their leaders are corrupt and none of the current crop want a system that makes them rich to go.

But where does it end? Hamas must go, Netanyahu must go. Neither party are interested in a 2 state solution and they feed off each other. This will just keep happening over and over until both go.

Just seen this. I still haven’t replied what I'd have done? I dont know what i would have done. Maybe not commit unrelenting genocide for starters. Maybe not deny a whole population water, food and medical aid. What would you have done @Stomacharmeleon ? Kill 13000 and destroy a country? This seems to be the only solution you can comprehend?

Israel has not done anything like Hamas did on October 7th. If you think this, you have not really looked into what they did.

And to make this analogy you need to ignore the fact that Hamas were deliberately trying to provoke the killing of their own citizens through this attack. This shows that whatever their motivation was, it was not retribution on behalf of their citizens.

it was probably to destabilize the peace process and developing relations between Israel and their neighbours. It was probably not a coincidence that they deliberately attacked Israelis who were most likely to support peaceful relations between Israelis and Palestinians.

Gaza has been run by Hamas for over 20 years. Israel withdrew from Gaza and does not control Gazans. Many people in Israel would like to change their government and as it is a democracy, will likely succeed.

Israel has not done anything like Hamas did on October 7th. If you think this, you have not really looked into what they did.

Bad joke? Surely?

Because it’s typical Israeli propaganda, like the awful headlines of 40 beheaded babies, all retracted as fake, but not before the idiots of the world believed it. Israel have just knocked another 200 off the death toll today, not before they told the world that 1400 were killed. It’s now down to 700 ( desperately awful as it is) but the Israeli government and the IDF are constantly being called out on their lies and being fact checked then they retract their statements, their fake videos, their propaganda. This is seriously not going to end well for Israel, they have caused their own downfall.

No innocent person on any side deserves what is happening. Or what happened.
Hamas knew what would happen and doesn't give a shit about Palestinian people or peace.

All of this.

We will have to agree to disagree on your first paragraph.

The rest of your post is just your speculation to try and justify what Israel have done. Hamas made us do it, they provoked us into starving over 1 million children and killing 1 in every 200 children.

I dont think anyone is saying that murdering children is ok because they're not beheaded. You said that. I understand that around 33 children were killed on October 7th and that's absolutely horrendous and unspeakable.

But made up stories about baking babies and beheading babies isnt helpful. We need to stick to the truth as much as possible and these stories don't help anyone.

Do you know the difference between initial reports and later clarification? That doesn't make Israeli sources liars.

I don’t think anyone is saying that Palestinian lives are worth less than Israeli lives - i certainly don’t think so.

To be fair, a poster has stated exactly this on another thread, in no uncertain terms.

There's just no justification for the actions of Hamas or the IDF. I agree, a two state solution would be ideal. I hope it will happen, but it seems so unlikely at the moment. It's always civilians who suffer in these situations.

There were babies without heads. It’s not possible to tell if they were deliberately beheaded or that was just a consequence of how they were murdered.

There were children tied together with wire and set alight.

There were adults and children tied together with wire and set alight.

There were terrified and traumatized little brothers crying, after seeing their father murdered, ‘ why am I still alive?’ whilst his murderers refreshed themselves with coke from their fridge.

There were whimpering young women cowering under tables whilst the killers instructed each other with cold efficiency ‘ there, one, two, three’

There was a family, grandmother and children huddled together in front of their murdered sister, with the murderers warning the young brother as he becomes agitated with terror, and the grandmother tries to cover the child with with her body to protect him.

There were murderers playing with the heads of the people they beheaded.

There were mass rapes and women with broken pelvis’s from the force of the attacks.

But you ignore all the things we do have evidence of for your own propaganda purposes, if that makes you feel, so misguidedly, on the side of the righteous.

If Hamas filmed themselves terrorizing and brutalizing and murdering hundreds of children, women and men and posted that online, and they did not realize that was going to bring down a severe military response on their own citizens, then they sure are almighty stupid.

It’s just not feasible to pretend they didn’t realise this, and they didn’t intend that to happen. That’s the land of make believe, I’m afraid.

The actions of Hamas were evil, but it seems very disingenuous to suggest that the actions of the IDF are not. Both are abhorrent, and the killing of tens of thousands of civilians for the actions of a terrorist group is barbaric.

Who knows what their reasoning was but it's certainly opened the eyes of an awful lot of people and countries to the fact that hamas aren't the only terrorists, its just some of them are an elected government pretending that every thing they have done and continue to do, is for the protection of israel and not that they've been punishing Palestinians for years just for being Palestinians

So are you saying that Israel are almighty stupid for not expecting a severe terrorist attack? They have spent years torturing and brutalising and murdering Palestinians, did they do that to goad Hamas, to bring a terror attack on their people? After all it is just not feasible to pretend that they didn't realise this and intend it to happen right?

Oh ffs. I'm sick of reading posts like these. What is wrong with these posters who seem to revel in the awful descriptions of what happened on oct 7th? Yes, it was deplorable, yes the world was sickened, no one heard what happened and shrugged their shoulders. NO ONE!! Do you understand that? NO ONE is saying what happened isn't utterly incomprehensible. And you and others relaying the gory details again and again are utterly shameful. I'll say it again, THIS ISNT MURDER TOP TRUMPS.
So stop it. Stop justifying the murders of over 13000 people. The Internet could be full of stories of people burned, crushed, blown up in Gaza in horrible ways BUT IT ISN'T. I haven't read any gory descriptions thankfully, even though there are thousands in Gaza, literally thousands. What is happening there is bad enough without the horrible descriptions. So stop trying to use the horrible ways people died to justify the ongoing genocide. Its deplorable to try to do this. Shameful.

‘Who knows?’ Is that the best you can do?

Erm, sorry! Didn't realise I was supposed to have some indepth knowledge of the workings of hamas🙄

Pithy answers dont cut it @Sussurations . Too many people, too many children murdered. Your pithy replies are beneath us. We see what is happening. The world sees what is happening. And no matter how many pro Israel posters pop up on mn, the world will hold Israel accountable for this. One day. Maybe not soon, but one day. And Israel will loose any credibility it thought it had.

No need to apologise, my mistake for assuming you had given what you were posting some actual thought. in fact you’re not interested in wasting time thinking about why Hamas committed atrocities when you could be criticising Israel.

If you say so!

As I’ve said before. The Israeli government have not done anything comparable to what Hamas did, neither in actions or intentions, and I suggest you look in detail at what they did so that you can see this for yourself.

And yes, the implication in your post that the Israelis brought this on themselves is disgusting.

I am saying Hamas knowingly brought this on a Palestinians. I am not saying Palestinians brought it on themselves. I am saying Hamas did and deliberately did in this single day act of calculated atrocity. Because they don’t give much more of a shit about Palestinians than they do about Jews ( let’s be clear, this was a racist attack against Jews. The terrorists are clear about this in the videos they made of themselves).

Tbh, you are increasingly sounding like an apologist for Hamas in your steadfast refusal to acknowledge this. You increasingly sound like you think Hamas had justification for this.

But to answer your question, yes, I think BN was foolish to think Hamas could be ‘contained and managed’ and that he took his eye off the ball to the threat they presented to Israelis.