Is Israel in the 'west'

[mids2019]

https://www.google.com/url?q=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dr4wbdKmM3bQ&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiNlbKilKWCAxURVEEAHdkHBv4QtwJ6BAgBEAE&usg=AOvVaw0xA7yJNmNTLy45HAkF8RDT

Just looking at a thread about Israel's entries into the Eurovision song contest and I am struck that it is the only country in the region entering. Do you think the fact that Israel possibly has relatively westernized views have an impact on our views of this conflict?

I have always thought of Israel being a western ally (as evidenced by military support) born out of the ashes of the second world war allowing a state for Jews that has emerged from a genocide.

Looking forward I do hope Israel keeps entering competitions like this as well as international sporting events as I fear anti Semitic feeling may emerge to effectively 'cancel' Israeli (and Jewish) artists and sports people.

Australia is in Eurovision too but America isn't. So it's not got anything to do with The West.

Israel isn't a Western country. No. Unless "Jewish" = Western, in which case why is the claim to land squarely in the Middle East! It has lots of Westerners who move there though.

Looking forward I do hope Israel keeps entering competitions like this as well as international sporting events as I fear anti Semitic feeling may emerge to effectively 'cancel' Israeli (and Jewish) artists and sports people.

I hadn't read this bit. Now I see why you're posting. Well done.

Why would Israel stop entering songs into a competition it wants to be part of, for multiple political as well as artistic reasons? That makes no sense!

Your faux concern is touching.

@PostOpOp

OK not quite in the West but possibly more westernised? I guess possibly because of the nature of its inception.

Israel is a democracy if that's what you mean.

@PostOpOp

I guess they may do quite well actually.

@caringcarer

good point. I guess Israel is the only democracy in the region (or at least most democratic).

You do understand the difference between Zionism and Judaism I hope? Why would someone Jewish be "cancelled" because of the actions of the Israeli state? Russian sportspeople have been allowed to compete in international sporting events, but not under the Russian flag.

The concept of "Western" implies there is only an "eastern/western" axis and that "eastern" is homogeneous group with the same culture. Compare China (largely atheist), Thailand (majority Buddhist) and Afghanistan (Islamic) and see how ethnocentric the concept of "western" is.

A better descriptor of what people like to sugar coat as "western" would be "Current or former majority Christian nations of the Northern Hemisphere and its former colonised territories that reached a certain level of development before they were emancipated from abandoned by their occupiers" in which case Israel would not count.

But people don't like that descriptor as it reminds them of why the culture in "western" countries is largely similar. Or some people really believe everything outside of "western" countries really is an identical mush of foreign parts.

Western its outlooks and systems, yes.

Over 50% of the population is Sephardi, Mizrachi, and Ethiopian. It isn't an Ashkenazi/European majority, which I think a lot of people don't know.

I think a country is either democratic or it isn't. There aren't degrees of democracy. If a state accepts democracy it has to accept that the will of the people who vote may not reflect the will of the government in power.

Are you being serious? Have you seen what's going on outside of Israel at the moment? Businesses targeted, homes daubed with swastikas and Stars of David, mice thrown into branches of McDonalds, windows smashed at Starbucks?

I am serious. We need to stand up for Jewish people in the face of anti-semitism. Where are you seeing those reports?

It's western in the sense that it's a liberal democracy, I guess.

Why would someone Jewish be "cancelled" because of the actions of the Israeli state?

Because Israel's Declaration of Independence confirms it's a Jewish State. Some people cannot separate the two.

And those of who can need to make sure people who don't know the difference understand it. We can't let history repeat itself. I don't agree with the actions of the Israeli state, especially given what the Jewish people went through, and I don't understand how they feel they can justify those actions. It's a mess and ordinary people on both sides are suffering.

Why does the Israeli entrant to Eurovision have to be Jewish? Surely there is a one in four chance they'd be another religion.

Countries must be members of either the European Broadcasting Union or the Council of Europe to participate in Eurovision. Azerbaijan and Turkey both participate regularly. Tunisia and Lebanon have submitted acts in the past but apparently withdrew because Israel was participating and Turkey sometimes boycotts for the same reason (they don't seem to have issues with the participation of other countries with questionable foreign or domestic policies, though). Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, and Libya are eligible but choose not to enter.

If you want to know whether a country is western, just ask yourself: would I as a single woman with no connections in the country be happy to move there alone?

I would to Israel, but literally no other country in the region