Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

Apologies, it was on the Sunak and Herzog thread, in this section. Yesterday, around 17.25.

I said: "Maybe you should say outright what you mean by your last paragraph. It does hint at islamophobia but I could be wrong. It would also be ridiculous to think supporting Palestine is encouraging terrorism on the UK." (You can still see my post).

The poster's reply soon after, confirming they were glad I understood their sentiments correctly, has now been deleted (you can't see the post any longer but can see the deletion message from MNHQ).

Yes I saw that and was shocked. Some posters don't even try to hide their islamophobia. Especially on threads where they know that others will back them up despite the racism

To me it’s the same as someone saying in reformation Europe the Catholics and Protestants weren’t known for playing nicely. I wouldn’t find that anti Christian. Can you explain the difference as I genuinely can’t see it.

Despicable. Sad that people get off on that.

I was too, it was an almost gleeful response! I'm glad it was deleted, I reported, but hadn't noticed until I checked there.
That was the sad thing, it largely went unchecked otherwise.

@Parkingt111 "The double standards on here are shocking
Anti semitism is not ok but islamaphobia clearly is"

Not 'Islamphobia' at all.

Though the two main sects within Islam, Sunni and Shia, agree on most of the fundamental beliefs and practices of Islam, a bitter split between the two goes back some 14 centuries. The divide originated with a dispute over who should succeed the Prophet Muhammad as leader of the Islamic faith he introduced.

Despite their differences, Sunni and Shia have lived alongside each other in relative peace for most of history. But starting in the late 20th century, the schism deepened, exploding into violence in many parts of the Middle East as extreme brands of Sunni and Shia Islam battle for both religious and political supremacy.

This is fact.

Remember the Iran/Iraq War?

Ah ok, that would be why I hadn’t seen it, thanks for looking it out. Obviously I can’t comment as I haven’t seen both sides but I’m sorry if there was an expression of Islamophobia and glad MNHQ deleted it.

It really is, I understand religion is an inescapable factor in this conflict, but I don't see any need for anyone to target the Jewish or Muslim communities with so many already concerned for their safety.

Luckily MNHQ agree it's racist and have deleted the post

No problem, I won't mention that I was trawling through my posts for a while until I realised I could just search and display them by most recent. 🤦🏽‍♀️
MNHQ do seem to be removing any unacceptable posts not long after they're reported, it must be a mammoth task given they have the whole forum to look after on top of their usual everyday work.

At a time when islamophobia has significantly increased in the UK such flippant comments given without context is not only racist but inflammatory
I find that statement to be demonising of Muslims in general
If anyone else made that same statement and replaced the word islam with Judaism I would have also reported it

Yes I think in the circumstances they are doing a good job. It’s a very difficult task. I moderate a board (totally unconnected) and it is a hard task at the best of times.

But I’m sorry people are having extra hurt thrust upon them by such attacks on all sides

There are tensions between Sunni and Shia Muslims though. Saudi and Iran are pretty famous for not getting on, for instance.
This is factual.

Generally, Sunni and Shia Muslims get along. They can and do marry.
The divide is usually only a big issue within the Middle East. Even then, it's more like a sectarian issue, if that makes sense? For example, if both suddenly got along or religion went "poof!", there would likely still be issues and fighting.

💯 so true 👍

But the poster who made the comment made it clearly in context. Even within a purely Islamic state there would might still not be peace because of sectarianism.

A more recent comparison would be the troubles in NI - a Christian country but troubles between Catholics and Protestants meant no peace. No one ever saw this as anti Christian to make such an observation.

We need to be accurate regarding antisemitism and Islamophobia, these terms need to retain their power to identify abhorrent words and actions,

Exactly.

Likewise the Hashamite Dynasty (Jordan) and the House of Saud (Saudi Arabia)

When Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman toured the Arab world in December 2018 in search of support from his Arab peers after being implicated in the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, one monarch who refused to receive him was Jordan’s King Abdullah II.
Even before this slight, relations between Jordan and Saudi Arabia had undergone periodic strains and since then have become openly antagonistic.

Whether this state of affairs has anything to do with a possible Saudi role on April 3 in what King Abdullah asserted was a coup plot against him by his half-brother, Hamzah bin Al Hussein, is far from clear. But the arrest of Bassem Awadullah, a former head of Abdullah’s royal court and a Jordanian with Saudi citizenship has sparked wide speculation of a Saudi finger in the shaken Jordanian royal pot.
Awadullah is presently an advisor to the Saudi crown prince (MBS), who has shown a strong penchant for meddling in the affairs of his Arab neighbours.

This has included an invasion of Yemen, a blockade of Qatar, and an attempt to remove Sa’ad Hariri, who also holds Saudi citizenship, as prime minister of Lebanon.

Not 'Islamophobia' but fact.

The factual accuracy or otherwise of a statement is not exactly the deciding factor in whether a post is deleted or not!

I don't agree.

If I said "all Welsh people are thick" - that's racist.

But if I said (after quoting a link to a survey) that 60% of people think Welsh people are thick, that's fact.

Europe spend hundreds of years having wars between Protestants and Catholics as well. I don't feel like I'm being anti-Christian in saying this.
In fact as we all know, remants on those tensions remain, not that the perpetrators on the whole are particularly educated in the finer points of the doctrinal differences.

Even then, it's more like a sectarian issue, if that makes sense?

Quite so. Glasgow is a good example. It's not like everyone doesn't get on, most people don't care and get on fine, but there's a die-hard contingent who enjoy the violence. You could remove all religion but it would be the same old shit along football team lines.

The posts being made now are facts, albeit largely copied and pasted.
The original, now deleted, post was not simply a factual statement. Had it not gone against talk guidelines, it would still be there.

I've no argument with that.

In England after Henry V111 died in 1547, succeeding monarchs took it in turns to burn either Catholics or Protestants at the stake.

That's history, unfortunately.

You've misunderstood me. I'm just describing MN's censorship policies.

OK, fair enough.