Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

Rafah.

Yes the whole area is a mess. Most of the surrounding Muslims states are only really interested in seeing the whole area brought under Islamic control.

The whole thing has become Medieval. The absolute worst thing for Humanity would be to shut Israel down Because then the side of humanity that thinks atrocities and persecution are right wins.

Like you, I can’t see what else Israel can do. If the government of France invaded the UK and burned my child alive I would want to see France annihilated. I can no longer read about the atrocities Hamas carried out, it is some of the sickest most depraved things I think humanity has witnessed in modern times. Anyone who was involved or supported these actions needs to be made to suffer imo.

Unfortunately innocent civilians, as with all wars are suffering. The relief work on these situations is always slow. There needs to be a humanitarian corridor established but it’s so difficult because Hamas et al are cowards And think nothing of hiding behind women and children. But Hamas need to be wiped off the face of the Earth together with their supporters.

The very fact the place exists is an affront to their sensibilities. And we in the West enable those sensibilities.

Yes, all war is grotesque and terrible things happen. But these outrageous atrocities are not just the actions of a few battle-crazed rogue troops running amok. The attacks were planned in detail and calculated to incite terror. More than that, for Hamas it's not a source of shame but of pride: the most inconceivably gruesome acts were deliberately shared e.g. filming someone's agonising final moments and uploading it to their Facebook account to traumatise as many people as possible. Attacking defenceless people of all ages, including babies and the elderly, and making their deaths as painful as possible with torture and burning. Murdering children in front of their mothers, and vice versa. Raping women and then killing them, and vice versa, they don't care, all great fun to them. Many survivors remark on the attackers laughing with delight.

And no wonder they share all this with pride, because instead of accepting the full horror of what we're seeing, instead of grasping what this jihad actually means, the world goes "Ah, poor loves, they've always had a hard time of it."

@FreeCoathangers "The very fact the place exists is an affront to their sensibilities. And we in the West enable those sensibilities."

What place do you mean? Israel or Gaza?

the world goes "Ah, poor loves, they've always had a hard time of it."

The world hasn't said this about Hamas? Or do you see Hamas as being all Palestinians?
Palestinians have had a hard time of it for almost 80 years. That's an understatement. Gaza is in a humanitarian crisis.

Just as anti-semitism is not okay, neither is islamophobia.
It seems like some will be (rightly) enraged at even the thought of antisemitism, but Islam is fair game.

I'm seeing a lot of folk explaining Hamas in terms of what has happened to Palestinians, instead of seeing Hamas for what it is.

The double standards on here are shocking
Anti semitism is not ok but islamaphobia clearly is

Exactly. I've reported to MN but still waiting to see if they do anything. They very rightly take a stance against antisemitism, I should hope they don't allow blatant islamophobia to stand.

I think the worst part is that other posters who have cried out at anti semitism will continue to engage with the islamophobic posts.
And yet they are very quick to take the moral high ground

80/75 years is always an interesting timeframe people choose. It's been pointed out many times that the roots of this go a lot further back than that. Jews, and all non-muslims, in the Middle East had quite a hard time of it for several centuries before then as dhimmis following the Islamic conquest. Then their former superiors refused to allow them so much as 500 square miles of land to govern themselves.

Totally this.

Blatant islamophopia. Muslims aren't known to play nicely? So much for we just want peace. Shows what you really think of the Palestinians and other Muslims
Shame on you

Yes. The bias against innocent Palestinians is clear to see. Some of the least compassionate posters on MN talk about antisemitism and little else. The disregard for Palestinian lives is eye-opening.

That's not right at all.

This tit for tat with islamaphobia v antisemitism is really not helping at all.

i haven’t seen any Islamophobia. All I have seen is a repeating of stated objectives of Muslim states in the area. Where has there been any Islamophobia?

It's not meant as tit for tat. However MNHQ takes a firm stance against antisemitism, and it has been made as an accusation on many a thread.
There is obvious islamophobia, sometimes coming from posters who have voiced their concerns around antisemitism.
I questioned one statement previously, and the poster quite happily confirmed I had correctly understood their intentions when I asked if they had meant to be islamophobic.
Neither should be allowed or ignored.

So the Suni and Shi’a Muslims get along famously - I’m pretty certain the poster was referring to this division within Islam

Can you point out that exchange as I missed it

Hopefully their posts were deleted.

I'm not sure if they were or not, @Maatandosiris give me a few minutes, I'll have a look.

@Maatandosiris

So the quote
'Their are two main sects in Islam and they aren't known for playing nicely'

According to you is not islamophobic?