Disheartened about Christianity in the UK

[BlissfulDays]

Just reflecting on how uplifting it is to have been in other countries recently i.e. Spain, Italy, USA, Poland etc where there are still so many Christians who refuse to hide their faith, apologise for it or allow others to mock or condemn Christianity and Christians.

Crucifix are worn to profess true faith and not some weird, edgy, juvenile fashion statement.

It really makes me sad that we're in the culture that we find ourselves in here.

I feel like God has abandoned the UK and left it to its moral, economic and societal destruction. Not as a punishment but as a consequence of being selfish and putting themselves above Him.

Coming back here has made me feel so sad because I always forget how relieving it feels to leave and experience the world as I knew it before the UK turned from God.

It feels like we're in Sodom and Gomorrah and I really don't want to think that Jesus will allow all of us believers to go down with this ship.

But then I see things like Nigeria's treatment of Christians and, as a result, women and children etc and I just don't know what to think.

I see why you may be concerned where the UK is going as a society. I think though one will always likely find Christian people who God considers righteous in the UK . Like God mentioned to Abraham He would not destroy Sodom if fifty righteous people were found. I think that the UK meets that and God has not abandoned the members he has in the UK who he has given his Holy Spirit which they are sealed until the day they die. God does not abandon his people who love him.

A lot of objection about the faith seems not to be in someone’s real life, but come from social media. I have been to Spain and US and they didn't strike me overall as being more Christian how they expressed the faith than the UK.

I value the NHS system in the UK and that they have a social welfare system. Hopefully church’s will always exist and people can go about their life with their faith. I have a quiet life and in real time have had no problems practising my faith in the UK.

There are a lot of church’s in the UK with descendants from all over the world which may be considered more orthodox. For example the Ethiopian Coptic Church I am not sure what they believe in, but they have church’s in the UK.

@Justmerach ❤

It's so disheartening the quick destruction of the faith, the intentional misrepresentation, the blatant mockery etc.

Spain had no end of people wearing slogan shirts like, "Saved by Jesus," or "My heart belongs to Jesus," and the US has bumper stickers and Italy is overtly faithful and you just don't see it in the UK.

I am a university educated woman. I was educated in 'science'.

Most scientists aren't atheists, but the media will have you believe otherwise, as a way to make the masses view Christianity as intellectually inferior. It's a way to shame someone from professing faith where 'logic', no matter how illogical, is the standard.

This nation thinks they are above God. They are too intelligent for Jesus Christ. They are hostile towards Christianity. They have replaced religion with 'science' the 'media' or 'climate' or 'us vs them' in so many ways it's hard to keep up with the evolving divisions.

Happy for someone to tell me I'm wrong? Am I looking in the wrong places?

In the interim, I despair for this country and the trajectory. It's a grievous loss. I don't believe it's not similar elsewhere, but this is where I live and I can only speak for what I see from where I stand.

I do see what you mean about those differences mentioned. There was a thread on this forum about a minster who the police took their religious slogan of scripture on a van as a hate crime in the UK. On a Christian forum recently there was a post and people who lived in America posted some of their religious
slogans on their car so I got to see those to. I didn’t see any of those in America though. I have seen young people wear Jesus Christ t-shirt's in some church’s in the UK online in services, but not in the street which they may be doing more in Spain.

I think some people exploit the differences in denominations and it may not be a good look when we disagree so much about denominations.

Just reflecting on how uplifting it is to have been in other countries recently i.e. Spain, Italy, USA, Poland etc where there are still so many Christians who refuse to hide their faith,

Hello @BlissfulDays You’ve done quite a lot of recent travelling. How long did you spend in each of those countries? Are you British and normally resident here? I think your perception of a place can be quite different depending on why you were there and what you were doing, compared with actually living somewhere for a longer period of time.

I suppose all you can do is surround yourself with people who share your faith, as much as you can. I’m not experiencing what you describe in my life but maybe this is to do with what I have going on and notice. E.g. My kids go to Catholic school where lots of the staff and parents do openly wear crosses, have their offices decorated with crucifixes etc. The churches local to me are all doing well and also do stuff that spills out beyond the church building that are well attended (eg. Carol services outside, walking through the streets with crosses at Easter). The local scouts and guides groups are linked to the churches so involve young people who may not have church going parents, in services, church clean ups, fundraising for Christian charities etc. Are the churches where you live active much in the community? I wonder if there’s more stuff going on that you don’t know about?

I completely understand what you mean. I’ve just come back home today from Spain and I’ve had a very similar feeling. There is something really uplifting about being somewhere where faith is still visible and woven into everyday life rather than something people feel they need to hide or apologise for.

I visited Frigiliana while I was there and went to their festival celebrating the town’s history of three faiths — Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I found it really moving to see those different religious traditions acknowledged as part of the history and identity of the place. It actually made me reflect on how segregated things can feel here in the UK. I find it difficult to imagine Jews, Christians and Muslims coming together in quite the same way here to celebrate their shared history and heritage.

I do share your sadness about the state of the UK. When I look at the politics, the news and so much of what is happening online, sometimes it genuinely does feel as though we have lost our moral compass. And coming home from somewhere like Spain, where Christianity still feels much more visible, makes that contrast particularly noticeable.

That said, I don't think God has abandoned us. If anything, perhaps we are being called to be faithful precisely when our culture is moving further away from Him. The answer can't be despair or retreat. We can still pray, go to Mass, wear our crucifixes, talk openly about our faith and raise our children to know and love God.

And I think that's perhaps what struck me most coming home — not that Spain is perfect or that everyone there is devout, but simply that Christianity still seems to have a place in the public life and cultural identity of the country. I wish we had more of that here.

And I think that's perhaps what struck me most coming home — not that Spain is perfect or that everyone there is devout, but simply that Christianity still seems to have a place in the public life and cultural identity of the country. I wish we had more of that here.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Churches aren't historical places to visit from a bygone era in other places. Here, they are National Trust or English Heritage monuments or abandoned places or converted into homes etc.

In other places, there is still a reverence for Jesus Christ. There is still a peace that emanates from the public which is attached to faith. There is a confidence in salvation and the surety of our Saviour.

@LittleSuzume yes, I'm British but it's interesting to me that you would assume otherwise?

MN is rife with atheists who are British and deny the Christian culture of the UK so I don't believe my view is location specific? If so, let me know and I'll join you in your village/city!

It's uplifting to know there may be community differences. I'm in a small village. I'm not CoE. There are many churches but, from the information they have online, it looks like they're frequented by the older generations.

We go outside of our village to attend church and it's a good half hour drive.

yes, I'm British but it's interesting to me that you would assume otherwise? @BlissfulDays

It was simply a question, are you British and normally resident here? I’m not sure why you felt I was making an assumption.

I was genuinely interested in the many countries you mentioned having recently visited. As I said, our perceptions of a place can vary considerably depending on why we visit, where we go, who we are with, and how long we spend there.

You certainly don’t have to tell me how long you spent travelling or how long you stayed in each of those countries. I was asking because I felt some of your comments were quite broad generalisations, and I was interested in understanding the experiences and context behind them.

I didn't take offense at your question and, as I said, found it interesting.

In the UK the 2001 census identified 72% of the population as Christian. In 2021 it was around 42% who identified as Christian. This was not restricted to church going.

In Spain shops I think shut on a Sunday. This changed in the UK in 1994. The UK has not been generally an outward demonstrative country, but it is nice to see true devotion however you want to do it and it happens in the UK still to.
Perhaps the opening of Sunday shops marked a beginning of change in the UK over religion.

I live in London and have several church's in my area. A lot of people in the UK probably don't speak about religion and I went to a Catholic school and it was not something we spoke about often in social groups as a child, so I am not sure how reflective this website is of the UK population.

The UK prime minister is meant to have Catholic values and is now targetting trying to end homelessness.

Who knows what the next Census will bring. I would like to see things stabilise at least.

God hasn’t abandoned market town where I’m the priest. We have three churches. The RC priest and I are very visible as we wear black clericals. We can be found in the schools, the coffee shops, the social club and generally out and about. The locals know who we are whether they come to church or not. I get calls asking me to come round for a cuppa as someone is struggling or I’m asked to visit Mr X who has never been to church but is grieving the loss of his wife. You don’t see the calls we get when we are called out to the dying or the desperate. There have been a lot this summer.

We priests are the public face of the church. You will also see the Food Bank, the Warm Hub and the Dementia Cafe and not realise they were set up by my Baptist colleague. What you won’t see are the quiet invitations by our parishioners to the lonely to church events, or round for tea, or doing the shopping for those newly out of hospital. It gladdens my heart that there is so much good out there. At times they are old and set in their ways and can drive me demented, but when they see a need there is no stopping them.

My part of the world is very rural but pretty so lots of incomers. We have a lot of rural poverty, hidden hardship and an epidemic of loneliness. Escape to the Country has a lot to answer for. There is a lot to do. My pretty church has a lot of visitors. We give away prayer cards, booklets in how to pray and wooden hearts as a reminder that God loves them. Bibles are out in the pews and get stolen stolen. We quietly replace them. We invite people to take Alpha’s Why Jesus book in a number of languages. The Japanese one is very popular. My impression is that we are a first contact with Christianity for many of our visitors who would never go to a church service. Our mission field looks different but it is still mission. You would have to drive a good half hour to a large town to find an independent evangelical church or a charismatic evangelical church or a C of E church led by a conservative man. Out in the villages and market towns it looks different. Quieter and more personal but still profoundly Christian.

I agree with you about the lack of visible Christianity in the UK, and on MN you can see how many people take issue with the UK being called a Christian nation, and how many are ready to shout down Christians (although I am pleased when I see Christians break cover and speak up for Christ and the Church, there are likely far more Christians lurking than we realise!).

Remember though that if we are discouraged Satan is only too pleased, so we must remember God has not abandoned the UK and there will always be a faithful remnant, and I do think there is a quiet revival underway at the moment. Brits aren't a demonstrative lot so it's harder to see, but it's there.

This is the oddest conversation! I am very confused. Where did assumptions and offence come into it? You don't want to answer the questions or give more information, and that is your prerogative. I am unable to say much more than in my previous post:

I was genuinely interested in the many countries you mentioned having recently visited. As I said, our perceptions of a place can vary considerably depending on why we visit, where we go, who we are with, and how long we spend there.
You certainly don’t have to tell me how long you spent travelling or how long you stayed in each of those countries. I was asking because I felt some of your comments were quite broad generalisations, and I was interested in understanding the experiences and context behind them.

@mostlydrinkstea and @GentleSheep 's takes on your opening post's comments are similar to my own.

I think that youth groups need to be more supported more in this country with the crime we have in this country and this also should be led by some Christian outreach workers as well, so helping the young to find Christ.

With what seems like growing crime in recent years, crime and safety is a concern for some families with children in the UK today.

I know someone who is involved with going into prisons and bringing people who want to listen the message of the Lord.

As a member of the c of e I do despair of the general idiocy of our leaders.
But I would never wish to live in a country with a powerful church. Look at the Catholic Church in Ireland for example.
A powerful church generally involves the oppression of women. I'm travelling in Armenia at the moment.and find the experience of Christianity very appealing. But it goes in hand with high levels of violence against women.