Constant urine infections in DD 3.7, any ideas/ experience, dr's have given up.

[JackBauer]

DD1 has had about 5 or 6 infections since she potty trained about 9 months ago.
She gets bad fever, wees every 5 minutes, wincing when wees so I know what it is, she has antibiotics and it clears it. She's had blood in ehr urine a few times.
Today we had a scan at hospital, the Paed did the scan and said that there was no damage from infections and no cause for it so I should accept it is just 'one of those things'
I don't really want to accept that my daughter is going to be ill and in pain for a few days every month or so.

Anyone have nay anecdotes/ideas of what coudl cause it so I can try and avoid it?
She isn't great at wiping her bum so I have been wiping myself when she poos, which is not practical with nursery etc (as the teachers won't accompany them to loos)
I wash her hair in the bath and seem to rememebr reading somewhere where you shoudln't but don't know why.

?
tia!

If she is having that many have they thought about putting her on prophylactic antibiotics (small dose every day to try and avoid getting them).

Does she like cranberry juice?

As a frequent sufferer myself -

shampoo can irritate, so if you do wash her hair in the bath, do it at the end.

Lots of water

Cranberry? Bu tonly when there is no infection present, cos it stops the antibiotics working.

Am a bit at paeds comment. I would really think (from my own experience adn from a friend whos dd had this issue) that she should be on some kind of long term low dose antibiotic to stop this happening.

I used to get this as a small child too. Mum and Dad gave me Potassium Citrate. These days I find the 'cures' don't work and cost the earth, so I take a teaspoon of bi carb in a glass of water and it always clears it up quickly IME. Doesn't taste great, but if you pinch your nose, you don't taste it much.

They ahve never suggested antibiotics, might suggest that next time I see GP. Would it be okay for it to be long term? How long would she take them for, forever?
I think because I see it starting (she is always grumpy and 'off' the day before the fever and weeing starts) and I get antibiotics before it gets too bad. Luckily my GP knows me well and knows I don't like them unless necessary, so the urine tests always come back inconclusive for some reason.

She loves cranberry so that helps, it's her 'pink medicine'

Drinks loads of water anyway, wee is normally quite clear so I know she is having enough.

Shall stop washing hair first to see if that helps.
I used to get them myself a few times a year until (weirdly) I got pg with DD1, and haven't had one since

Paed was a bit dismissive as I looked a bit disappointed nothing was found. Don't get me wrong, I am glad there is nothing but was kinda hoping for a solution IYSWIM.

One of my friends used to get cystitis after sex until she had her first baby must be the stretching!

What tests have she had done? She would not only need and ultrasound but also a DMSA and a video micturating cystogram if being properly investigated.
Is there any family history of prolonged bed wetting/ wee unfections or other kideny problems?

referral to urologist/nephrologist?

What way is she wiping when she's pooped? A uti can be caused in little girls if they wipe from the back to the front IYSWIM, it introduces bacteria from the rectum.
An ultrasound only shows the structure of the kidneys, not how they are working, I second what WobblyPig has said.

Hmmm. nothing like that, just had urine tests and the ultrasound and told that that is all they can do. Bit now. Shall make appt with GP for a chat.
Her cousin had kidney problems when he was born, not 100% what but some issues from birth, but no other family history, can get my SIL to elt me know.
She didn't seem to have them when in a nappy, but I don't know, sometimes DD2 gets unexplained fever for a few days but she is in nappies, and it clears quickly so I have never had that checked.

noooo, go back and ask for a referal to a urologist, a paediatric on if possible. A video micturating cystogram is where they watch the kidney's working to make sure they function OK, it sounds like she needs this. Ultrasounds show the size, shape and location of the kindeys but not alot else.

She does wipe back to front but she wipes the front first and then just the back IYSWIM. She doens't have the reach to get round the back yet. (she tried the other day and did a somersault on the bathroom floor as she bent over too far. was very hard not to belly laugh at her face

Will keep trying to teach ehr to wipe and stop washing hair and ask for referral if they carry on, Dh is not keen on more tests if it is somethign as simple as wiping as she is terrified of doctors/hospital as it is.
Thanks for info though, any more advice would be great too.

As an adult with recurrent UTI/Kidney Stones I had about 4 different types of tests involving catheters, injecting dye, CT and MRI scans etc ......

I would demend that you see a proper paediatric urologist or nephrologist.

An ultrasound will not have shown there is no damage - it won't show micro-scarring of the kidney, or whether the urine is refluxing.

Sounds like you have ben fobbed off a bit Jack. Hooray for MN, eh?

She can wipe front to back by reaching down rather then round IYSWIM. Do go back to the GP and get another referral, she needs to see someone that knows what they are doing if you see where I'm coming from. It may not be because of how she's wiping so it does need to be checked, each kidney infecion leaves a little scar in the kindeys so this needs a proper investigation.

DD had lots of trouble with this - she was on prophylactic antibiotics for quite a while ,but when we saw the paediatrician she wasn't keen on this. DD had always had trouble with constipation and wiping (she has dyspraxia which made this more of a problem),and I'm sure this was behind many if not all the infections.
The Paed advised bathing morning and evening,and best possible hygiene in between,no bubble bath,cotton knickers etc.

I don't want to be gloomy about this but it's been an ongoing pain in the neck for us,my advice would be do all you possibly can now while she is still little,because IMO it all gets harder the older they get (though they are meant to grow out of the tendency as everything gets bigger!)
In what way are the urine tests inconclusive,by the way? I always knew DD had an infection,but our GP made us test before starting the antibiotics (even if it was a test just before the first dose!) to make sure we were on the correct antibiotic for the infection,not one it was resistant to - your GP must be checking this though?
Good Luck - I hope you get it sorted soon!

Yes weegiemum, hooray indeed!
I called my mum earlier and said I was a bit at the fact they expected her to just suffer and mum said 'maybe try that mumsnetter thing you go on about, maybe they can help'
She's dead clever my mum

My 2.5yo DD also have recurrent UTIs, and like Pogleswood I have always been instructed to get a urine sample prior to starting ABs (which are then started immediately without waiting for results). This has on occasion resulting in switching treatment mid-course, as different ABs have been needed for different bacteria.

Key in avoiding the infections in our case is to make sure DD drinks a lot. Loads. and then some more. I must admit we are fairly free and easy with offering juices/squashes, as I find DD gets bored with water quickly, and doesn't drink enough.

Here is a link to the NICE guideline that the paediatrician should be following:
guidance.nice.org.uk/CG54

Just remembered.

My (adult) urologist (the man in the world who has looked at my lady bits so often he's 2nd only to dh!) said that while Cranberry is good, any fresh fruit juice helps.

My nephew was born with kidney problems and their nephrologists were adamant that any urine infections in children are a reflection of an underlying kidney issue. Agree to demand more. Antibiotics are not the answer long term

Just to add to my post DD had ultrasound and 2 other tests(it's some time ago now so the names have gone - one was to scan the urinary system while she was urinating and check there was no reflux,and this was before we saw the Paed.)

Hmmm. they do send tests and start ab's the same day so sometimes have had to change course, but soemtimes I have to repeat the test as it doesn't show any infection. I think this is why they were slow to refer TBH as there is only a record for a few infections but I want to start her on ABs quickly, and she wees sucha small amount each tiem I think there is not enough for testing, but they have never given feedback IYSWIM.

thansk tellnoone, am off to have a read.

DS2 has kidney problems, but luckily hasn't yet had a UTI (that I'm aware of anyway). He's had a few tests, will try and remember their names {does search of old MN threads}... they were:

Micturating Cystourethrogram

nuclear medicine renal MAG3 renogram

I think the first one involved putting fluid in his 'winky' to check it didn't reflux back up to his kidneys (horrible horrible, lots of screaming in tiny newborn ). The second one involved putting radioactive 'stuff' into his bloodstream, then monitoring how it went through his kidneys and was weed out. Had to be still, but not painful.

He was prescribed low dosage prophylactic ABs (trimethoprim) at birth (probs diagnosed in utero), but we discontinued them after a while as he had v.bad stomach reflux, so was always sick aafter taking them.

In addition to this, he's had lots of ultrasound scans.

So.... I think they need to be doing more checks before saying there is definitely nothing there. Keep protesting! I was always pleased that even though DS2 has kidney problems, and has had ops and various procedures because of them, that he didn't have to go through years of pain and infections before the problem was correctly determined. Sounds like your poor DD is going through the mill a bit... hope it gets sorted soon.