To antibiotic or not to antibiotic? And which pro-biotics can help break the cycle please?

[BlueBumedFly]

I posted last night as DD had been running a fever of 40.1 which I could not get under control. Talked to NHS Direct who channeled me through to a doctor at 2am this morning who said to keep giving pain killers and bring her to the out of hours clinic today which we did. Have 3 phone calls from NHS direct and docs in total from midnight to 2am and checked for Menengitis each time.

Anyhoo, back to docs this morning and she has a severe ear infection (radial?) and very red/sore throat, tonsils don't seem to be white yet.

I am giving both Calpol and Nurofen, however, they are not lasting the course of time and she has had a temp of 40 (104) again today, the lowest it has been is 38.5 and that was on Pain Killers.

I can understand that antibiotics are getting us into a vicious cycle but as we are moving into day 3 of an extremely high temp and I have already started the anti-bs I am going to have to finish them.

Any advice on how to break the cycle? I have been advised to give a pro-biotic by a really helpful MNer who posted on last night's thread but which one?

Where do I start - any ideas please???

bump

Many thanks Puzzlerocks, having another terrible night.

I am going to watch this.
We have just gotten back from the hospital with dd (started on the phone to nhs direct, went to walk in centre as advised, waited for an hour to be assessed, then sent on to A&E)
DD has got tonsillitis which has made her very poorly since Tuesday and they have given her anti biotics. I feel I have to give them to her - the top doses of calpol and nurofen are not helping her temp or pain, at the hospital they gave her codine.
So am going to be watching to get her on some pre biotics to ensure she doesn't start a cycle (I ended up on a cycle once, it was agony, every time I was given antibiotics I ended up with a raging throat, cue more tablets, cue more raging throat!)

there is this old article about prebiotics and how good they are (the ones found in normal foods) for boosting the immune system link

something on probiotics as well for you
hth, I'm sure somebody will be along soon who uses them and therefore more help than me!

Hello Elfontheshelf - I am so sorry to hear your DD is so poorly. Like you, the Nurofen and Calpol are not working.

I am going to have a look at your links with interest, I need to get some help from somewhere!

DD refused any food today then coughed herself sick over me about an hour ago. Poorly pickle.

Many thanks for posting Elf!

xxx

Hello again Elf - I have done some research and have been told that Solaray BabyLife Probiotics is very good. You can mix it into formular - you think you can add it to Cows Milk?

I have also read some really interesting articles about not giving probiotics whilst taking antibiotics, rather wait until the course of Antibs are finished as not to 'confuse' the immnune system and create an autoimmune response.

I wish there was a good baby website for all this, if I ever get knowledgeable I might just set one up myself!!!

Tried to answer you on another thread and conputer went belly up.

Lucy Burney whos book 'how to boost your childs immune systme' reccommends Bio-care.

[http://www.biocare.co.uk/subcategorydetail.php?category_id=37&id=64 here]]

She also reccommends cutting out mucus forming foods, such as dairy, sugar, banana's. She also reommends using elderberry extract.

I up the level of vitamin c, infact I give larger amounts daily when bugs are around, my son has a pro-biotic drink every day. I am ruthless about not letting him have sugar, no sweets at all and very little chocolate. We drink only goats milk which has less mucus in it, infact drinking goats milk has given the biggest rewards in reducing ear infections.

I use organic honey/lemon/ginger hot drinks, and give freshly juiced juices when ill.

White bread/pasta/sugar are your childs worst nutritional enemy, they suppress the immune system and take vital nutrients in your childs body to process empty calories, its a lose, lose situation with white refined foods.

If you are in a fix you might as well give the anti-bs and start anew when its over.

As for not giving pro-biotics during anti-s thats up to you, I personally would give them.

link

what vicious cycle are they getting you in?

If she is getting a lot of ear infections, might be worth asking for a referral to a paediatric ENT. (We got a referral with dd and it was v useful. Explained how the ear infections worked, why she kept on getting them. Eventually, as she grew older, she started getting fewer infections but they may want to look at her ears in case she has glue ear etc. as then grommits may help).

They are nasty ear infections, especially at that age.

My Mum ended up with permanent holes in her ear drums from infections as a child in the days when antibiotics weren't available! She had partial hearing her whole life.

Many thanks Believer - will have a really good look at that in the morning when I can concentrate better. Rather tired....

Fox - I am going to ask for a referral, you are right, we really need to act now.

Sleigh - a friend of ours had a baby with a perf ear at 6 months, I think that is why I am so sensitive to it, sorry for your Mum.

Right, off to check temperature again, many thanks all for taking the time to post, will be back in the am.

If I where you I would avoid gromits at all costs, until you have tried everything else that is availible, dietry and alternative. Surgery should always be your last resort as going under general always carries a risk of death.

My son had loads of ear infections, we cut out the cows milk and stopped the anti-bs and he grew out of them. Most kids grow out of them by the time they are 7 or 8.

I would get this book.

here

this will open your eyes and give you more confidence in taking control of your childs health.

Cranial osteopathy is supposed to be brilliant for speeding up the change of angle of the eustachian (sp?) tubes which then reduces the risk of glue ear & infections, def worth a go!

My dd had glue ear & ended up with grommits as her hearing was very bad at times, had speech delay and zero confidence as a result. They changed her life but I agree no op is risk free! Fortunately she only had probably 2 ear infections in her life!

Thanks Believer, we are no further forward. I have bought some BabyLife probiotic powder for when the anitbs are finished and ordered the book.

She is still so poorly with high temps, little or no food going in and has developed a stop from hell! Trying to make allowances!!!

Sleigh - she had CO when she was born as she was a traumatic birth with emergency C-section. I am going to ring my friendly osteopath now who has treated all the family this year one way or another!

Many thanks for taking the time to get back to me, very much appreciated.

I hope she is on the mend very soon that she is still so poorly, hopefully you will get her sorted out asap so the cycle doesn't keep repeating.

BBF, hello, hope your DD is better.

Interesting thread, we've been in the same position so I will also look into the probiotics now ds seems better and is off ABs.

Hello Strawberry, always good to hear from you. Glad your DS is feeling better and his allergies have been kind over Xmas for you all.

The story this end is that DD is no better, went back to the docs today and the ABs have not touched her, in fact she now has an infection in both ears and her throat. They have given me another course of ABs.... what to do?

This bug has changed my headstrong yet funny affectionate little girl into a stroppy, clingy, tantrumy child whom I bearly want to be around let alone recognise. I am using all my Mummy Patience to get through this one and am really hoping her sysmtem will start to improve soon and my Clementine soon returns.

I have even cooked chicken soup which I mixed with rice to see if the old wives tale really does work, amazingly enough she did ear it, finally a break from the flippin fish fingers! So, now we have 2 food options.....

Thats a good start with the soup.

Have you put warm olive oil in her ears yet?

If not, heat up some good quality olive oil till its warm (not hot) and drop it in her ears. You could also crush some garlic and add it to the oil, but dont fry it just heat it, and then strain out the garlic and drop that into her ears. Also get some ear muffs to keep them warm, we always, always cover tghe ears when outside even if its only slightly cold.

Also you could evaportate with some albas oil, I just drop a bit into a bowl of hot water, keeping out of reach of course.

Its a waiting game I am afraid. Oh and I also do liberal amounts of praying.

Many thanks for still posting on my tale of woe and moan Believer.

I have done the olbus oil in hot water in her room again, that seemed to work well. More soup out for tomorrow, and shed loads of praying taking place!!

Luckily she loves hats and I have ones with ear muffs so that one is covered off too.

Must admit I pml at the idea of putting warm olive oil in her ears. I have used this technique on myself before and it is great I know but..... Picture if you will a small and slight freakishly strong human cross between a windmill and an octopus on speed who seems to have learned a very accurate karate chop for one so young... and that is just to put a nappy on!

Hee Hee, you have brightened my day for sure!

BBF, if its any consolation, it was the second dose of abs when we had to change DS's due to the possible allergic reaction that finally made the difference. I hope she's turned a corner.

Thanks Strawberry. DD was diagnosed allergic to Pen last Feb. She was vomiting and was unable to take any fluid or food making me think her throat was swollen.

My NCT instructor actually realised what was going on when she asked me the question about the smell (euw!) of her vomit and diarrheoa. As hideous as it may sound, it did smell exactly the same as the medicine and everything was the same bright yellow as the meds. We rushed her into the docs where he diagnosed her allergic to Pen.

What he said then shocked me. The Pen was given from an out of hours clinic who whilst acting in very good faith for DD knew nothing about the family history. Apparently, you need to be extremely careful when giving Pen to a child who has a sibling with a nut allergy. Apparently, and I can only go on what he said, the younger sib can be predisposed to be allergic.

Scary stuff. Anyhow, we keep her well away from Pen but the alternative it too broad spectrum.

It never ends eh?

Ok I've been researching bout this for quite some time now and decided it won't hurt to try (we're not really into the whole health supplements thingy). So what brands would you guys recommend? Heard that this probiotics is pretty good. Anyone tried it?

High Nature Probio Easy www.highernature.co.uk/ShowProductFamily.aspx?ProductFamilyID=43