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Children's health

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Original poster

13 YO does not give his consent for nasal flu jab.

39 replies

TheOrigRights · 05/12/2022 15:04

He's had it every year since year 3 or 4 I think, as part of the national roll out (something like that, he's not clinically vulnerable).
This year he has said he does not give his consent.
I had a discussion with him as to how he came to his decision and talked about making an informed decision.

All that said, I think I have to respect his choice, don't I.

OP posts:
MillyMollyManky · 05/12/2022 15:05

Yes.

Hoppinggreen · 05/12/2022 15:06

Unfortunately you do have to respect it even if you don’t agree

HomemadePickle · 05/12/2022 15:07

Yes. Am assuming you mean the jab (a nasal jab would be particularly nasty!). The person administering the vaccine won’t do it if he won’t consent. My 13 yo initially said he didn’t consent - but then his grandma asked him to reconsider (she’s very vulnerable) and he’s agreed.

Original poster
TheOrigRights · 05/12/2022 15:10

HomemadePickle · 05/12/2022 15:07

Yes. Am assuming you mean the jab (a nasal jab would be particularly nasty!). The person administering the vaccine won’t do it if he won’t consent. My 13 yo initially said he didn’t consent - but then his grandma asked him to reconsider (she’s very vulnerable) and he’s agreed.

No I mean the nasal spray. Yeah...I could understand him not consenting to a needle up his snout!
Good point - even if I give consent, he can override that, which I agree with.

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BabyST · 07/12/2022 10:04

Can he make an informed decision and fully acknowledge the pros and cons? Is he able to describe all this to you? If so then yes. If not then no you’re his partner you have his responsibility in hand.

PandaOrLion · 07/12/2022 10:06

if you’re happy he is Gillick competent then I think you need to respect him, but I’d also ask him to talk you through how he’s come to the choice. Explain that you don’t want to talk him out of it, you’re just interested in his opinion.

lookersnoopy · 07/12/2022 10:12

My 12 year old initially refused, she isn't in school so low risk of even catching anything, however her dad and I are vulnerable and we wanted protection for the family as a whole, so she agreed. The older DC pay for the jab at the chemist.

catsonahottinroof · 07/12/2022 10:13

You have to respect his decision. If it's having the spray up his nose he objects to, he could have the flu jab instead if he wants, although this would probably need to be done at a GP or pharmacy - at least this was the case in my area last year as my daughter also didn't want the nasal spray, but wasn't averse to the flu jab in principle.

Alexandernevermind · 07/12/2022 10:16

It's probably not even about the vaccine, it's probably more about want to make his own choices and asserting control over his body.

grapehyacinthisactuallyblue · 07/12/2022 10:55

I think you have no choice since no one will force it on a child refusing. But I would make sure to understand why re is refusing, and like pp said, to see if he is willing to have shot or not.

Original poster
TheOrigRights · 07/12/2022 11:10

Thank you. Yes he has capacity to make informed decisions. As Alexandernevermind says I do think it is about him exerting his rights rather than the result of scientific research.
I respect that and think it's important he sees that I do.
I will make sure he knows he doesn't have to justify himself to anyone if his decision is questioned; just say "personal choice".
The primary school were very pushy when it came to collecting consent forms, wording emails in such a way that a less informed parent might have believed they had to consent.

OP posts:
JenniferBarkley · 07/12/2022 11:23

I'm very pro flu vaccine, but at the same time I think this is the perfect relatively low stakes scenario to allow him to assert his maturity and weigh up the factors and make an informed decision.

Original poster
TheOrigRights · 07/12/2022 11:37

JenniferBarkley · 07/12/2022 11:23

I'm very pro flu vaccine, but at the same time I think this is the perfect relatively low stakes scenario to allow him to assert his maturity and weigh up the factors and make an informed decision.

Absolutely.

OP posts:
Thedoglovesmemore · 08/12/2022 19:36

Well yes at 13 even if you felt he didn’t have capacity no one is going to permit you to physical restrain him for a flu jab if he’s isn’t personally vulnerable to infection. The stakes aren’t high enough to justify the means. So he can say no and that’s that really.

But rather than just encourage him as a blanket policy regarding his emerging autonomy I would encourage him to be able to articulate why he doesn’t want it and think if ‘just because’ or ‘it feels weird’ or whatever are good reasons. Because part of coming of age is not just being able to say no but be able to make reasoned decisions so I would be letting him know I expect that

urrrgh46 · 08/12/2022 19:42

The nasal flu vaccine is at best about 50% effective - I wouldn't be upset about him refusing it. If we were talking HPV that would be a different matter. The government only vaccinates to try stop the spread of flu to the elderly mainly - children are rarely seriously affected (not to say it isn't very unpleasant - one of mine was ill for 4 weeks with flu) but the nasal vaccination is pretty rubbish really (hence vulnerable groups including children are still offered the actual injection).

ButterCrackers · 08/12/2022 19:45

Has he thought about his vaccine being a protection for others and not just him? If the vaccine stops him getting flu he won’t be passing the virus to others who might be vulnerable.

Original poster
TheOrigRights · 08/12/2022 23:38

ButterCrackers · 08/12/2022 19:45

Has he thought about his vaccine being a protection for others and not just him? If the vaccine stops him getting flu he won’t be passing the virus to others who might be vulnerable.

Yes, we have had that discussion. I think the pandemic went a long way to demonstrating this reason, and he experienced it first hand when his older brother (and adult) chose not to get any covid vaccines. Last Christmas when DS1 was home he tested +ve within a day, meaning we couldn't visit their grandad.

OP posts:
Original poster
TheOrigRights · 08/12/2022 23:43

Thedoglovesmemore · 08/12/2022 19:36

Well yes at 13 even if you felt he didn’t have capacity no one is going to permit you to physical restrain him for a flu jab if he’s isn’t personally vulnerable to infection. The stakes aren’t high enough to justify the means. So he can say no and that’s that really.

But rather than just encourage him as a blanket policy regarding his emerging autonomy I would encourage him to be able to articulate why he doesn’t want it and think if ‘just because’ or ‘it feels weird’ or whatever are good reasons. Because part of coming of age is not just being able to say no but be able to make reasoned decisions so I would be letting him know I expect that

Absolutely. I am a scientist so can bore the pants off him (overuse of the term "informed"!).

I've used this event to allow me to consider how I may handle the issue if it comes up again, especially as urrrgh46 says for vaccines like HPV, and for other medical decisions .

OP posts:
Ineedcoffee2021 · 09/12/2022 00:23

his body his choice

Snugglemonkey · 09/12/2022 00:44

Yes you do. He has bodily autonomy.

Kanaloa · 09/12/2022 00:55

His older brother refused to get Covid vaccinated, meaning you all couldn’t visit granddad on Christmas Day? How did your son feel about that? Did he think his brother was selfish, or it was unfair for granddad? Did he see it as an unfair impact on everyone else? What were the results of it, did you voice your disagreement of refusing the vaccine/did you discuss how it had unfortunately impacted the whole family rather than just his brother?

Is he aware that he could also pass flu onto granddad and if GD is elderly this could make him really unwell?

Overall I don’t think you can force it. It’s one of those give all the tools and hope the house gets built right sort of scenarios. But I would want to ensure that he had thought through the whole thing and come to the right conclusion for the right reasons, and was aware that it could impact others just like his big brother did.

Original poster
TheOrigRights · 09/12/2022 07:43

Kanaloa · 09/12/2022 00:55

His older brother refused to get Covid vaccinated, meaning you all couldn’t visit granddad on Christmas Day? How did your son feel about that? Did he think his brother was selfish, or it was unfair for granddad? Did he see it as an unfair impact on everyone else? What were the results of it, did you voice your disagreement of refusing the vaccine/did you discuss how it had unfortunately impacted the whole family rather than just his brother?

Is he aware that he could also pass flu onto granddad and if GD is elderly this could make him really unwell?

Overall I don’t think you can force it. It’s one of those give all the tools and hope the house gets built right sort of scenarios. But I would want to ensure that he had thought through the whole thing and come to the right conclusion for the right reasons, and was aware that it could impact others just like his big brother did.

6 questions!
I don't want this thread to turn into a vaccine debate. I have already said that DS2 is aware that him being vaccinated helps protect others.

OP posts:
KangarooKenny · 09/12/2022 08:13

Would he have the injection instead, or is it a flat no ?

ButterCrackers · 09/12/2022 08:32

Kanaloa · 09/12/2022 00:55

His older brother refused to get Covid vaccinated, meaning you all couldn’t visit granddad on Christmas Day? How did your son feel about that? Did he think his brother was selfish, or it was unfair for granddad? Did he see it as an unfair impact on everyone else? What were the results of it, did you voice your disagreement of refusing the vaccine/did you discuss how it had unfortunately impacted the whole family rather than just his brother?

Is he aware that he could also pass flu onto granddad and if GD is elderly this could make him really unwell?

Overall I don’t think you can force it. It’s one of those give all the tools and hope the house gets built right sort of scenarios. But I would want to ensure that he had thought through the whole thing and come to the right conclusion for the right reasons, and was aware that it could impact others just like his big brother did.

agree - protecting others is really important. I want to add an unrelated comment about blood donation. This is crucial and helps unknown other people. See if your adult son could donate blood if he doesn’t already. Also to discuss in your home about the topic of organ donation. These actions of vaccination, blood donation and discussing on organ donation are selfless and help others so much. It’s off topic but I just wanted to add this in.

Original poster
TheOrigRights · 09/12/2022 08:38

@ButterCrackers
As it happens I am off to (try) and donate blood today. Been low on iron last 2 times so will be thrown out if it's still low.
DS1 has a fear of needles - he did try and donate when he turned 17 but came over faint. I will broach it with him again.
We've had the organ discussion and we're all on board with that.

OP posts: