This isn't normal is it? And probably explains why my 5.10yo dd is still in pull-ups at night.

[peggotty]

She quite often goes the entire day without going to the toilet. I asked her tonight if she had been to the toilet today (this was at 6pm) and she said no! She then went when I asked her to and weed/pooed. She goes most days at school without going to the toilet and will only go once we get home if I remind her or under duress. She's not a big juice/water drinker and will not be persuaded to drink more than she already does. Not surprisingly, her nappy in the morning is normally huge and saturated. How do I sort this out? Is it a psychological thing or just a bad habit?

I don't know. (I read because ds is slightly older and still not reliably dry every night.)

I'm not a big drinker - I rarely get thirsty - and can easily go all day without drinking or peeing. I certainly used to manage a working day until 5pm without peeing. I was dry at night very young, though.

I've read that timetabling in drinks regularly throughout the day can change habits, with a view to becoming dry at night.

I think there's 2 issues here

1. Her not drinking/using the toilet enough in the day. And why she won't use the toilet at school.

1. The night wetting.

It's actually very very common for 5 yr olds to still be in pull-ups at night. However, if she's not drinking properly during the day/weeing regularly then I don't think you'll really be able to know what is causing the night wetting.

Not drinking and weeing enough is a health risk in young girls (risk of dangerous UTIs). I think you should tackle that, give her a sticker for each day time wee -- sadly am not joking, the day time problem needs sorting out. She needs to relax about it for her long-term health.

Why won't she wee at school? Phobia about the toilets?

yes - the timetabling drinks would probably be the first thing that was recommended if she reached 7yrs old and was referred to the enuresis clnic.

DS1 is supposed to aim for 8 drinks a day.

1 with his breakfast
1 just before he goes to school
1 at break time
1 at lunch time
1 when he gets home from school
1 half way between home time and dinner
1 with dinner
and the last 1 at 7pm (1 1/2hrs before he goes to bed).

And what is the result of that, FAQ? Is it working?

well.......he's a stubborn buggar and unfortunately making sure he drinks at school is out of my control.

At the times that he HAS done the proper drinking he does seem to have wet the bed much less/not at all. Unfortunately he has the attention span of a gnat at times and at 10yrs old he knows now that he has to make the effort.

We've just started (again) from scratch with the drinking thing, hoping to work back up to the alarm (again) and see if it works this time as he does seem more determined.

(BTW 'tis very odd seeing FAQ )

Hi thanks for quick replies! I know that a lot of kids her age are still in pull-ups at night but you have hit the nail on the head baroqin, it's impossible to tell what is causing the night-wetting. She has had an issue with the school toilet in the past (last year) in that she was scared to go into it because of a noisy extractor fan but she assures me that's not the case anymore . She is like it at weekends too. I just have a feeling it was something she started doing deliberately (maybe when she was scared of the school toilet) and it has become a habit. It will be hard to force her to drink when she's not thirsty and doesn't want to. Funnily enough, she very often very thirsty all of a sudden when it is time for her to go to bed and has to have a bottle of water to drink in bed. I know this is not ideal but because she drinks so little during the day I feel I can't deny her!

is there any drink she particularly likes (even f it's not proper juice or water). I know with DS1 when we started at the enuresis clinic 3yrs ago the nurse said that although obviously water, milk, fruit juice are hightly preferrably in terms of what they drink. If they don't drink a lot then yes - even the horrid fruit shoot type drinks and squash were better than little/nothing.

The bottle of water to drink in bed will be why her pull-up is soaked in the morning. If she can go all day at school, even with not drinking much, she must have reasonably good functional bladder capacity.

So it sounds like a combination of a psychological thing & bad habits. I don't think there's anything you can do about her daytime habits at school, but could you try bribery to get her to drink more at home, immediately after school & long before bedtime, and during the day at the weekend - star charts to gain points for a big reward or something?

Ponders it might not be the reason her pull-up is soaked. DS2 is my only dry one so far (DS3 still young) and he takes a bottle of water to bed with him (and it's all gone by the morning) but very very rarely gets up to use the toilet, and hasn't had an accident at night for years.

But of course until she is drinking properly in the day impossible to really tell. If she's not drinking much her bladder won't be stretched so much so she won't be used to being able to hold on to a large amount of liquid. And often a small bladder results in an almost "irritation" which can make then need to go more often.

I hadn't thought of a reward chart to encourage her to drink more during the day, will give that a go! She responds quite well to rewards/bribery . She doesn't really have a favourite drink, prefers water or apple jiuce usually but I think if I put chocolate milk in her lunch box she would drink most of it.

worth a try, peggotty

also might be an idea to speak to her class teacher about her reluctance to drink during the day. Some schools are really keen on getting the children to drink more, with water fountains & whatnot, it's good for their brains apart from anything else.

\link{http://www.wateriscoolinschool.org.uk/learning.html\water is cool in school}

& that's from the ERIC (Education and Resources for Improving Childhood Continence) website!

As others have said, she needs to drink a lot more in the day to increase bladder capacity - this will have a positive effect on night time dryness. Being in pull-ups at 5 is not unusual and it sounds like you have identified the issues.

You can ask the school to help with this. Most schools encourage drinking during the day and you could ask the TA/teacher to remind DD to go to the loo at regular intervals.

A reward chart for drinking and a reward chart for sitting on the loo are the way to go. Encourage drinks as listed above, and ask DD to sit on loo for 5 mins (you can start with less and work up) every few hours while at home. Don't worry too much about reward results so to speak, more the sitting.

Try and avoid blackcurrant-based drinks and any tea/coffee or fizzy drinks as these can irritate some bladders.

There is a school of thought that says pull-ups are too good at their job and so children never feel wet and make a connection. Once DD is a bit more sorted during the day, you could stop the late night drinking and go without pull ups, or put pants on before pull up so the wet sensation is felt. Iw oudl concentrate on daytime issues first though. Good luck.

Thanks all. Some great advice