Employer has stopped paying me for public holidays!

[jackiesweet]

Ok i dont have a contract and it was a stupid mistake, I am leaving this job soon and have another one lined up for August.
My employer has paid me for bank holidays since i have been there and i have been there since last year April 2009, there has been every now and again certain things changed within my job by that i mean, the hours of job, amount of babysitting, and other wage issues. Last week i was told i was not going to be paid for my bank holidays as "suddenly" my employer has decided she "does not" pay me for public holidays. I was told not to come in to work on bank holiday and was expecting to get paid for it but i havent and because i asked my employer about this issue they were not so happy and got quite funny about it by just responding "oh well" and they walked off!. has any one else had a situation like this and what could of made them change their mind? I know i have made a mistake by not having a contract. I have another friend who works without a contract and her employers stick by everything they say they are very good. :-(

I think they've simply realised that in theory you can't prove they need to pay you and therefore think they'll save some money.

I would contact ACAS - do you have anything in writing which proves you're employed? Payslips? Job offer letter/email and acceptance?

Have they been doing your tax etc if you don't have a contract?

Where in the world are you?
If in UK then employers are able to ask you to take a bank holiday as part of your annual leave. Annual leave is a minimum of 5.6 weeks, which INCLUDES bank holidays unless contract provides better terms.
You have a verbal agreement with your employer, contract of employment is implicit as your employer has paid you money and you have accepted that money - so it's just that there is no written agreement.
Given you are leaving soon, probably they want you to take as much annual leave as possible to use up any that is left, thus taking the bank holiday as annual leave.
I feel they should have discussed things with you, so you knew what the situation was.

You DO have a contract of employment, contracts do not have to be in writing, it's just more difficult to enforce if they aren't. (Basic contract law: offer-acceptance-consideration = contract).

The fact that you have previously been paid for bank holidays means that this is what you can expect unless you agree otherwise (custom and practice). If they want to vary your contract they need to talk to you about it. As you are leaving soon you might not think it worth the hassle but personally I would go to your employer and say "having taken legal advice it appears that you should have paid me for the bank holiday. If you wanted me to take bank holidays as part of my holiday entitlement - which you are perfectly entitled to do - you should have made it clear from the beginning. Because you paid me for bank holidays previously it is reasonabe for me to expect it in the future. If you wanted to change this you should have talked to me. You really should have put this in writing when I started and by not giving me at least a "written statement of employement particulars" you are actually in breach of employment law". Phew - you probably don't want to do that but those are your rights

Talk to ACAS or citizen's advice bureau. You need to put your grievance in writing and CAB can help you with this. If your employer does not respond within 28 days there is the ACAS pre conciliation, or if that fails an employment tribunal.

There are no costs awarded and it would be very expensive for your former employer to be taken to one. Hopefully they would be a bit more sensible.

Thankyou for all your replies. Nanny Nick i am in Leeds The family dont know that i am leaving soon so there is no way of them trying to figure out bank holiday payments
:-/ I think the exact same, they really should of discussed it with me and when i was trying to talk about it they really seemed sulky and were trying to sweep it under the carpet. We just had a bank holiday not long ago i was paid for that one and all the others,It was the way they were talking to me which really upset me their response when i asked about being paid for the holiday, its like they must of thought i was really stupid becauase they seemed puzzeled why i want to be paid for bank holidays
and i have nothing in writing at all.
I just dont know how to face them. The new job i have been offered is in London maybe its different up there?

Do you know how much holiday you have left? Are they paying you legally or cash in hand?

Hi I have 3 more weeks of holiday as I have only taken a week this year. they forward money into my bank account and I pay my own taxes.

That's illegal. As a nanny you are employed unless in exceptional circumstances so they are avoiding having to pay employers NI xontributions. The tax man could come after them for however many years worth of backdated contributions.

Plus you are loosing maternity/jobseekers or whetever other benefits are based on NI contributions.

Are you registered as self employed then?

If you're employed then you are entitled to 5.6 weeks, not 4 weeks - this can include bank holidays. So if they don't want to pay for bank holidays then remind them that you are still taking that number of days paid holiday.

Jackie - you need to check your holiday year - i,e, if it runs Jan to Dec then your leave will be pro-rata, ie if holiday entitlement was 25 at the end of june you would have accrued 12.5 days.

Well technically if you're SE and pay your own tax and NI they have every right not to pay you for holidays. It's one of the downsides along with no maternity/sick pay.

That said what they're doing is illegal and as an employee you should have your tax/NI deducted shown on a payslip etc with paid holidays.

'Employers' like yours make me .

Are you registered as self-employed with the inland revenue?

If not, and your employer has paid you directly in your bank account, then they have broken the law, since it is the employer who is responsible for paying the nanny's NI contribution.

If you have registered as self-employed, then as frakkit says, not being paid for bank holidays is one of the downsides of being self-employed.

Depends if you're self employed or not. Have you got other clients. Is this occasional babysitting? Did you agree to be self employed?

But even if you are self employed if they have always paid you for bank holidays then your arrangement witht hem is that and they cannot change that unless you agree.

You're leaving in August. If you are an employee you are entitled if you're full time to a minimum number of days paid holiday a year including bank holidays. If you're not an employee then you may only be entitled to be paid for the days you work but they had been paying you before so that's perhaps what was "agreed". If they are worried you will report them to the tax office and you have not been paid X holidays between when tey stopped paying for them to August then you could say with your final pay you need £X for those days otherwise you will have to report them to HMRC.

Some people seem to think that nannies are casual labour. When you start your next job make sore you have a proper contract.

The first long term contract I had was put together by myself and the employer and as she pointed out [if either of us had a dispute further down the line, we could go back to the contract and see what was agreed]

I do find that employer's have become less professional over the years and do not always treat their nannies well and it makes me

Hi,
I am starting a new job next week, it a is part time position monday and tuesday, I have been working as a nanny for 15 years and usually had two jobs, mon-tue and wed-fri, my holidays were 4wks + all bank holidays, and a week of for christmas(2 bank holidays included in this) My new imployer insists of paying me 5.6wks of annual leave including bank holidays, what should I do? As a two day a week part -time nanny that would be 11.2 days a year 7 of which are monday bank holidays, that leaves me with 3 days of holidays of my choice! That seems so unfair to me as they were the ones insisting that I work mon and tue in which case I think bank holidays should be on them. What do you think? Plaese help, any comments would be welcome! Thank you

this is an old thread, wonder if op started a her job in august and if it is a nice one with a contract

but back to last reply, where did you get 7 of the days are mondays - not all bhs are a monday, esp good friday :) yes christmas/NY works out like that this year but not next year

there are always at least 4 bhm a year, then depending when 25/25 and 1st fall, in a few years time it will be 4 mons, 3 fri and a sat - which i think would roll over to being a monday iyswim

generally holiday is rounded up so would be 12 days

if you have 4 extra days then thats 2 weeks off time off, so i dont see your problem - you would still have 2 weeks your choice off, tho obv need to arrange it with your other wed/thur/fri job

or have i got this wrong?

It is what happens when you work Mondays on a part time basis. But is is totally fair. There are 108 Mondays and Tuesdays each year and you will get 12 of them as holiday. Fact that you cannot choose all of them is unfortunate but not unfair. I guess if you want more flexibility you could offer to work on some of those Bank holidays and take other dates off instead...

Not sure how you work out 11.2 - 7 = 3.

In fact there are 6 bank holidays on a Monday in the next 12 months (Easter Monday, two in May and one in August as always, plus the Christmas Day and New Year's Day holidays) which is as many as there can ever be unless you take exceptional public holidays into account (for instance 4 June 2012).

11.2 - 6 = 5.2 so you have 5.2 days minimum of your own choice (except in 2012 when it would be nice if your employer gave you Diamond Jubilee Day as an extra day off).

Hi. Iv been working as a cleaner for the last 2half years I don't work on bank holidays but have always been paid double time for bank holidays. Im still with the same company but they have got a new person doing the wages and he has changed my wage from double time to normal. There is no contract stating they will pay double or no verbal words stating this. Can he just drop my rate of pay because he thinks the company has been paying too much for my bank holidays

Manofsouls it is probably a good idea to start a thread in Employment Matters topic.

Without a written statement it may be tricky to prove what the prior agreement said about public holidays. Your employer can change your working conditions but would usually need to give advance notice.
There is no automatic right to tine off or double pay on bank/public holidays.
If it has been custom to pay double and you have evidence of that going back several years then you may be able to claim that it is part of your contractual right.
Talk to ACAS.org.uk about how Custom and Practice could be proved, how to approach employer, and generally about your employment rights.

Thank you. For your advice. The person who has changed my payments is NOT my employer he works for the company and just deals with the wages. Surely as he is NOT my employer he he no rights to change my pay.

I have all my pay slips from the time I started working there

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/employment_issues - start a new thread on this section, you will find that people who read that board may have suggestions.

The person changing your pay is working for the company so may/maynot be doing the change with the managements agreement.

He has not spoken to my employer about the change hes just changed it without talking to them