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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Childminder holiday entitlement - 5 weeks full pay?!

38 replies

lizzie0975 · 29/06/2009 10:25

Hi everyone,
First time poster here, shout if I'm doing anything wrong!
Sorting out a childminder for my 9month old. She's asking for 5 weeks full holiday pay, plus bank holidays, plus 10 days sick pay should the need arise.
This seems unfair to me. Aren't I using her services and if she can't provide it because she's on hols I shouldn't have to pay? Would obviously expect to pay if we went on holiday when she's available. Really don't want to be difficult as she's great!

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

TheOtherMaryPoppinsDiets · 29/06/2009 10:28

Go elsewhere if you don't like her terms and conditions.

ruddynorah · 29/06/2009 10:29

she is self employed. she can ask for what she likes but you don't need to feel obligated to pay up,unless you really want to.

ruddynorah · 29/06/2009 10:30

meaning of course you should go else where!

CarGirl · 29/06/2009 10:33

When comparing with other CMs if they don't have paid holidays do they have higher hourly rates to compensate etc?

I think NCMA recommend the legal minimum of paid holidays per year but it is your decision whether to agree with her T&C or not.

TheOtherMaryPoppinsDiets · 29/06/2009 10:33

She will really be in the minority of CMs who have those terms I must stress.

southernbelle77 · 29/06/2009 10:34

Childminders all do things differently and it is up to you to choose the one you like best and whose terms and conditions meet with your approval. If you don't like them then you should look elsewhere. Or, if you really liked her but not her terms then tell her so and see what she says! No harm in asking!

waytoomuchchocolate · 29/06/2009 10:40

i don't pay for my CM's holiday or sick days but her hourly rate is quite high i think which is probably partly to compensate...

you're right that as a self-employed person you are using her services and she isn't 'entitled' to paid holiday, but that said, she can charge what she likes and as others have said, it's up to you whether you want to pay it or not...

personally, if you think she's great, i'd go for it. i had to make that choice when deciding whether my CM's hourly rate was too high (in comparison to others in the area) and i haven't regretted it.

CarGirl · 29/06/2009 10:52

I have to say I prefer paying the the higher hourly rate rather than paying for holidays & sick.

fleacircus · 29/06/2009 10:55

I think that's pretty normal. We're contracted to pay four weeks' holiday at full pay, plus bank holidays and 10 days' sick pay (she's only ever had one sick day though). And we pay half price during the school holidays when DD doesn't go to the CM. But, I think she's great, and DD loves her, so I don't mind.

I'm entitled to full pay for holidays so I don't see why she shouldn't be, to be honest.

islandofsodor · 29/06/2009 11:07

Childminders are self employed so are not entitled to sick pay or holiday pay.

However if you sign a contract giving her that then you have to pay it.

We are self employed and we just budget over the year to cover holiday times. If we don;t work we don;t get paid.

I would not be at all happy with those terms and conditions in a childminder and would look elsewhere. In my opinion self employed people should incorporate overheads in their hourly charge and take out insurance to cover sickness as my husband has had to do.

AtheneNoctua · 29/06/2009 11:14

Agree with others. She can charge this if you agree to it. But, you are not morally or otherwise obligated to agree to it. I would not sign up to these terms in a childminder. If she want to be my employee then I will expect her to show up for work at my house and get my kids ready for the day without my assistance. And, if she wants to be self-employed then she needs to cover her own overheads.

I would look elsewhere. And, as you have already said, I would be happy to pay her anytime she was available for work and I did not show up. But not when she is not available for work.

nannynick · 29/06/2009 11:19

What other options do you have? Have you visited other CM's in the area and ruled them out?
The positives of this particular CM to you may outweigh the negative aspects. It's for you to decide if you want to use this particular CM or keep on looking.

Blondeshavemorefun · 29/06/2009 11:32

welcome

your cm seems to want a lot, esp as she is se

se normally means you dont get holidays or sick pay

but if you agree to it and sign a contract then not a problem

sure you can get a better deal

TheOtherMaryPoppinsDiets · 29/06/2009 11:35

There is something in the working time regulations about continuous provision and se and holidays/sick pay entitlement but I can't buggering find it now

Anyhow it matters not as the choice of what to charge is upto the CM and the onus is entirely the parents, you either agree or you don't.

Original poster

lizzie0975 · 29/06/2009 12:19

Thanks for all the comments. Slightly tricky situation as she's a friend of a friend and just starting up. We met a few times, got on well and she's really good with DS who seems to like her too. Decided not to face the mammoth task of trawling through other CM in the area as she's exactly what we were looking for. Now agreeing terms. Her hourly rate is £5.50 which is average for this Nappy Valley area! Will think on. Good to know where we stand...or don't stand!

OP posts:

spicemonster · 29/06/2009 12:30

Hmm ... I'd say then that you'd be keen to use her but that you've spoken to a number of other CMs and their terms all appear to be XXX. Have a ring round and see what the standard seems to be where you are

FWIW my CM charges 4 weeks holiday and no sick pay which is pretty standard in North London I believe.

Blondeshavemorefun · 29/06/2009 12:54

she is just starting up and is asking for sick pay and holidays

i could understand if it was a cm that had been around for years and turning children down, but a newbie shouldnt dictate those terms

if you really like her then tell her, but say that others you have been to see and like dont ask for sick pay and holidays and see what she says

maybe the new cm doesnt reliese that she will be se and isnt entitled to those perks (but if you dont ask, you dont get)

HappyMummyOfOne · 29/06/2009 12:56

I'd not be happy with those terms and would look elsewhere, particularaly as she is just starting up so doesnt have the experience.

Dont forget, unless you take your hols at the same time as hers for the five weeks you'll have to pay for alternative care. This applies when she's sick too if you cant get the time off. Do you have enough annual leave to cover all the time off?

S/E has its perks, paid holidays and sick pay is not normally one of them.

Lewismum · 29/06/2009 12:57

I would def ring round to at leat find out what others charge, that isnt normal round here at all, I dont charge anything for hols or sick. If you can afford to throw away several hundred pounds then not a prob but remember you may have to pay alternative child care when she is not working.

MiniMarmite · 29/06/2009 13:03

As others have said, CMs can do things how they like in terms of holidays etc. I've been interviewing CMs lately and this is the most paid holiday I've heard of and none of the ones I've interviewed have asked for sick pay.

More importantly though, is she the right person to look after your child?

RosieGirl · 29/06/2009 13:33

My goodness I must be doing something wrong !!! I don't charge for outings, I take children on a weekly basis, swimming, library, toddler groups, parks, farms etc, don't charge for bank holidays, don't charge for my illness, and don't charge for my holidays, which is 4 weeks in a year. I'm not rubbish (got an outstanding in '07) do all my appropriate paperwork and only for £3.50 per hour (and some still question that).

Mind you thats why I probably don't earn much by the end of the year

ChocolateRabbit · 29/06/2009 13:44

That seems a lot to me (particularly the 10 days sick) and it could be very difficult for you and your DP to cover. I pay my CM for holidays as per the NMCA standard now, but only for 3 weeks so DH and I have plenty of holiday left to cover days when the CM's children are ill (1 so far) or DD is ill (5 so far).

If she took all the holiday and all the sick days plus there are a few days when your DC is too ill to go can you and your DP actually work?

Will she take on the responsibility for finding alternative childcare if she can't deal for a day?

AtheneNoctua · 29/06/2009 14:12

Out of curiosity , what is her notice period? Is there a probationary period where you could pull out on short notice (or she could) if things to get off to a good start?

If you are feeling "tricky" about this conversation, how are you going to feel when there are other issues to discuss... Say for example, you don't like her approach to potty training? Maybe using a friend of a friend as a childminder has more complications than benefits?

risingstar · 29/06/2009 16:17

It sounds like if she is new to this that she has just taken advice on what should be in the contract. I think that if she is keen to have you ( and i would imagine that once she has one charge she will find it easier to get others) that you should let her know what you would find acceptable.

agree 10 days sick seems way over the top, wouldnt be so bad if you knew her track record and it seemed unlikely to occur for 10 days each year. Equally 5 weeks paid hols seems ott. We used to agree hols each january with our cm- we always took the same 2 weeks in the summer and often the same week over Easter and I used to pay half for the others.

i think that you do need to go and see some others, if nothing else so that you have a realistic idea of what she is offering vs others.

JenniPenni · 29/06/2009 17:19

She's told you what she would like, and you can tell her what you would like, I am always open to negotiation with parents - to a point. Is she too?

If she is immovable, then look elsewhere, that is a lot to ask for imo, and I am a CM in nappy valley area too.

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