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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM wants part of the payment in cash. Is this normal?

30 replies

america · 30/10/2008 13:29

DS has been with the same CM for about a year now. He seemed very happy with her but there have been some changes lately and I'm a bit perplexed.

First, I used to pay her partly with CC vouchers and the rest by bank transfer. Now she wants 2/3 by transfer and 1/3 in cash (odd amounts). When I asked why, she gave some lame excuses of cash points being often out of order near her house (there are 2 cash points within 5min walk) and we are talking London here. Am I being paranoid or does this sound a bit fishy?

Second, the CM looks after two other toddlers full time in addition to DS (18MO, 21MO and 15MO) and two children (3YO and 5YO) before and after nursery/school. She has now taken on board another little boy before school. I'm starting to worry a bit that she has too many children to look after. I know that she cannot prevent every bump and bruise but DS had a big wound in his head this week and one of the other toddlers has a huge bruise in her forehead. She claims to be fine with all these children and I feel like a mother hen for worrying about this now. What do you think?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Pawslikepaddington · 30/10/2008 13:31

Sounds fishy to me, and that is a lot of under 5-my cm used to manage 2 under 2 and a 3 y/o, and she was seriously experienced, but turned people away as she couldn't take more than that to the park etc and pay them enough attention.

leonifay · 30/10/2008 13:47

if your that worried, give ofsted a call. if shes doing nothing wrong she wont worry too much about an ofsted visit. but then if the health of your dc is at stake and one phone call wouldnt hurt. it does all sound slightly fishy to me too.

HappyMummyOfOne · 30/10/2008 13:48

I personally wouldn't pay by cash, agree it sounds a bit fishy and may not go through the books. Plus you would have no way of proving payment if she ever chose to dispute it.

I would also be worried about the five younng children - not only is her attention very divided but also outings etc may be compromised by so many young ones.

SammyK · 30/10/2008 13:48

The payment thing may be innocent, but with the number of children in the mix too I do think you should be concerned.

Is she a registered childminder??

If she is she should have only 3 under fives at any one time (including own children if has any) - unless she has a variation, which will be printed on her displayed registration certificate.

I am a registered CM and full to my ratios, and would never want extra! As PLP says, the children wouldn't receive enough attention, and my hair would turn grey.

Did you get an accident form to sign and a copy of it when your child hurt their head. You should have if she is registered.

SammyK · 30/10/2008 13:49

BTW forgot to add all my parents pay me in cash. This is their own choice and I declare it all, wouldn't dare not to!

RainbowChaser · 30/10/2008 13:53

Def seems fishy. Something not quite right about this sudden change. I wouldnt agree to it TBH.

DontlookatmeImscaaarrryyy · 30/10/2008 13:58

The number of children would worry me most.

Does she have her registration certificate on view. A registered cm should always have this displayed while minding. You are perfectly entitled to ask to see it if not displayed. It gives details of how many children and what ages she can look after. Most cm's are only allowed 3 under 5's unless they have a variation from ODSTED which i think is shown on tHE certificate??

If not registered she won't be insured, and even if she is registerd i would assume that if she is over her numbers that would invalidate any insurance she did have.

solidgoldskullonastick · 30/10/2008 14:00

A person may want paying in cash because they are over their overdraft limit so any cheques/bank transfers etc will just disappear into a black hole: the mix of cash and vouchers may be a way of reducing her debt while still having enough money for food etc.

Original poster

america · 30/10/2008 14:11

Thank you. She is registered and I have always had to sign a form after DS's accidents. I'll ask to see her certificate for the number of children she's allowed to care for but it still sounds too many to me.

Mm, true. The cash request might be because of personal reasons but the amount just sounds weird, (she wants in cash £282)...

OP posts:

leonifay · 30/10/2008 14:25

her certificate should be up on her wall, where you can easily see it.

geraldinetheluckygoat · 30/10/2008 14:34

Why don't you just speak to her about the number of kids she has, ask her how many she is registered to look after? Four under fives wouldn't be unusual, five would be very, I think. Does she have five under fives all at the same time, or do they come and go, if they come and go, she might not even be over her numbers. If you are concerned, talk to her and tell her why, have a discussion about it, you might feel happier afterwards.I would always hope that a parent of any of my mindees would talk to me in the first instance before asking to see paperwork and calling ofsted! The cash points in the shops close to where I am (there are 3 nearby) are also constantly out of order or have run out of cash, so I dont think this excuse is that doubtful.

TheOtherMaryPumpkins · 30/10/2008 14:45

I am going to now ask parents who pay by bank transfer for a part of it in cash as it takes 3-5 days to clear still and leaves me with no cash for that time which isn't on - but then again I can't be asking for payments early to allow for this so it's my way round it.

As to numbers, she may have a variation - that would show on her certificate so check it out.

SammyK · 30/10/2008 15:06

TheOtherMaryPumpkins - when parents have paid me by bank transfer I have explained that it should be in my bank on te contracted day/date so it may have to leave their account earlier, and they should ensure this at their bank. Does that make sense?

mogs0 · 30/10/2008 15:27

When I was a cm in London it was a pita to get to the bank. I was looking after children a minimum of 4 days a week and the last thing I wanted to do was have to go to the bank to get cash. At least one of my mindees paid cash but everything went through my books. If you're worried about that, just make sure she writes you a receipt.

Re. her numbers, like the others have said, check her certificate.

ActiveC · 30/10/2008 18:41

five under 5 I bet she's over her numbers.

Ask to see her reg cert ASAP. If she starts story telling, then you'll know she over minding.

As for the payment situation, It's not iffy at all, however, it MAY be that she's understating her income in order to remain qualfied for certain benefits.

HTH

looneytune · 30/10/2008 18:52

I used to have 5 under 5's but 2 were rising 5's and therefore counted as over 5's iyswim. However I'd definitely check her certificate as this shows all of the children she's allowed to 'childmind' (ie. her own kids aren't included in those numbers, if she has any). And yes, her certificate AND insurance cert should be on a wall or something where you can see it - it's a legal requirement.

TheOtherMaryPumpkins · 30/10/2008 19:01

Sammy I know but they havent the money themselves till the day its' due so can't do that as it'd then leave them short, doing it part cash part transfer should work out ok for all concerned

Nothing wrong with being paid in cash, doesn't mean that everyone who deals in cash is dodgy and not going to declare it

wabbit · 30/10/2008 19:05

She's required to display her certificate anyway so it should be with her intro to home based childcare practice cert and her paediatric cert - on her wall

in a rush so haven't seen all the posts but I understand the rule is...

5 under 8, of which no more than 3 should be under 5 and no more than 1 under 1yrs old.

geraldinetheluckygoat · 30/10/2008 20:43

its six under eight, three under five, one under one. BUT it is fairly easy to get this increased, and as someone else said, there are other rules for rising fives. Just ask her how many shes registered for!
I still dont get why everyone is SO SUSPICIOUS of paying by cash, it IS a pita having a bank transfer for the reason that marypumpkins gives. I have been out of pocket by delayed bank transfers myself.

bigdonna · 31/10/2008 09:21

she will have to have a variation to have 3 under 2.i have large house have lots of experience and am allowed 1 under1 2 under 3 ,and 3 under5.2 over 5.i also get paid in cash.i give receipts so they have proof they paid.

looneytune · 31/10/2008 10:59

bigdonna - where are you then? I'm in England and you DON'T need a variation for 3 under 2's, I had 3 under 18 months recently and it was all above board. In England it's a max of 6 under 8's (but your own children are deducted), 3 of which can be under and and only 1 of these can be under 1. Other than that, she'd need a variation.

looneytune · 31/10/2008 11:06

of which 3 can be under 5

bigdonna · 01/11/2008 12:37

hi looneytune i am in surrey and merton council say 1 under1 ,2 under3, 3under5.

looneytune · 01/11/2008 12:47

didn't think it was down to council but down to Ofsted?? Is this what your actual certificate says then?

Scarfmaker · 01/11/2008 20:55

America - I can't see any problem with the childminder asking for cash payment. As long as you are given a receipt then the childminder will have to put these amounts in her accounts book. It's sometimes a problem for parents to have cash payment as they can't get to a cashpoint (just as it is a problem for a childminder to get to a cashpoint.

I mind Monday 8am to Thursday 6pm and can't get to any cashpoints conveniently while minding the children and by the time my day is finished with my own three I have to get in the car to drive to one if I need the cash.

Also, one of my parents pays by cheque on a Monday but I can't get to the bank until the Friday and then the cheque takes days to clear so effectively I'm in arrears.

There are still a lot of people who prefer cash payment.

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