Starting reception - when does 15hrs funding end?

[Gigglingsquids]

DD is at a small private nursery and we’ve been advised that the standard 15hrs funding will stop at the start of July (DD due to start reception in sept). So on this basis everyone on the standard funding will have to pay full fees for July and August? Is this right / allowed? Funding has been split across the 51 week year, but even if it were across 38 weeks it should surely run to the end of school term time? Can’t find anything on the guidance websites about this concept of “periods” for the funding payments, has anyone come across this before?!

You should be able to claim 15 hours per week for 38 weeks of the year. Some settings will stretch it for you so works out about 11.17 hours per week for a 51 week year. They can only claim termly therefore it depends how they stretch it. I am surprised that they are saying it will end before of July regardless of August. We are funded for 13 weeks which takes us to end of July.

If you stretch it the funding should end at the end of August.

Thanks - so presumably nursery are getting the funding for the term at the very least but then effectively double counting by refusing to apply it for July and august? Have a younger DC there so don’t want to kick off and cause issues but this is ridiculous!

We have 12 weeks funding for this term so TTO fondues on 12th July, giving a one week break for half term. If they've not given the half term break then it might finish in 5th July. Have you been getting 15 hours since the summer term started (15th April)?

DD is summer born so we were able to claim it for the first 2 terms of reception against fees for a private school. The school term ends mid July so I would understand if you’re not stretching it but you are so that doesn’t make sense to me. But maybe things have changed in the last 2 years, nursery funding is so overly complicated! But I agree that it doesn’t sound right. What’s nursery’s explanation?

Yes we’ve been receiving the 15 funded hours since April 2023 (not that it makes much difference to the invoice but that’s a different issue!). Sorry probably being dim but what’s TTO? Is it that there’s only 12 weeks allocated for this term so it could legitimately end at beginning of July? But if that’s the case shouldn’t this be taken into account with the split across the year? At the moment feels like we’ve had a reduced number of hours as it’s split across the whole year but now 2 months are being wiped out completely? Feels like a lot of “funded hours” to miss out on?

It's so hard to expian but basically funding is claimed by settings termly not annually or weekly. TTO means term time only.

If they claimed summer term 2024 for you they (in my LA) would have been paid for 12 weeks times 15 hours (do you not get 30?) So a total of 180 hours. Ignore the previous terms, they aren't relevant.

It’s blooming confusing!! So last year I’m sure we didn’t have to pay full fees and the funding applied in July / aug, just can’t understand how her leaving in sept changes that, there’s either allocated hours across the year or there’s not?! We only qualify for the basic 15 hours from 3 sadly.

Because your nursery were happy to 'borrow' hours from future terms to help cover the very long, unfunded summer. You attended and so that worked out for them. They can't do that this year, you will have left.

I would like to point out that this is why I and many settings only offer funding term time only. Not only is it more paperwork and hassle, but parents often end up disgruntled when all you've done is try and do them a favour and get zero thanks for it.

Not saying you're grumpy about it, but settings are always seen as the bad guys instead of blaming the government for making it so complicated.

When you start reception your funding goes with you and there must be enough to pay the full 15 hours if you are unsure talk to your LA for clarification they may be thinking your lo is going to school nursery not reception.

I think my issue is more that this is yet another example of poor communication from the nursery, I appreciate that the funding position is overcomplicated and that it’s the government to blame! Useful to have an explanation which makes sense re the concept of “borrowed” hours - just frustrating that the nursery just opts to make v short statements which don’t particularly make sure and refuses to elaborate on them when just a v simple explanation would help with the understanding and remove the need for loads of questions!

To be fair most settings have problems understanding how rules are used by the LA and it's only when they fall fowl of them and are left out of pocket they get an explanation. School always gets full funding so changing to school is an issue for stretched.funding.

The 'borrowing' of hours doesn't make sense.
So our funding started this term after the Easter holidays finished. Our funding for this term will run from April- June, then June-August for the next term.
However you use the hours, you will have a set amount of hours to be used in that time frame. If they're stretched they cover July/August from the June code refresh, they aren't borrowing from September-November to cover the summer holidays for non school leavers because you don't get to use the funding in advance.

There are no borrowed hours it doesn't work like that. If you used 11 hours a week they run out end of August if you used 15 they run out mid July.

What June refresh? The 3 terms of the year are Autumn (Sept to Christmas), spring (January to Easter), and summer (Easter to July).

Are you a funding administrator? You really can't fully understand the funding system unless you deal with it and all it's nuances as a setting.

No I'm a confused parent like the OP. By June refresh I mean the Gov make you confirm your details every 3 months to check your eligibility.

I can use 30 hours per week for the summer term - if I stretch those hours to include holidays I am still using the same allocated amount of funding (less actually as I lose some of it by stretching)
How can it be borrowed from the Autumn term if you don't 'have' it yet?

The 3 month cycle to renew your details is unique to you. It will depend on the date you first applied and go from there.

When I said borrowed, I meant averaged out. The nursery will assume you will attend for the complete year and they will be paid accordingly so they will.ne happy to average out your hours to give an equal amount each week. In reality, settings are not paid equal amounts so they will have lost out if you had left before they had made up that loss. Since they know the OP is leaving, they won't be willing to do that.

As I said its very difficult to explain, even harder over the Internet!

So for me in my LA
Summer I am paid 12 weeks to be stretched over 20 weeks

Autumn I am paid 14 weeks to be stretched over 17 weeks

Spring I am paid 12 weeks to be stretched over 15 weeks

Your child gets 195 funded hours from 1st April-31st August.
If you use 15 hours a week you will get 13 weeks.
If you use 12 hours a week you'll get 16 weeks.

How many hours a week are you claiming?

Thanks, I appreciate it's hard to explain! That does make more sense using an average, but the OPs nursery would of known they can't do that with leaving preschoolers. It's a shame the government aren't supporting childcare settings properly

Our hours are stretched over the 50 weeks so it should be roughly 11 hours a week - so on that basis 16 weeks should take us to the end of July? Looks like they’re effectively treating us as now being switched to 15 hours, but nothing in the invoices reflects that we’ve been switched to this (i.e we’re not benefiting from an enhanced fee reduction for a shorter period). HOW has someone made this so complicated?!??

How many hours have you used so far since September? You have 570 for the year.

Do you sign a claim form each term? You could ask the nursery to show you how many hours they have claimed for you and see if that matches how many you feel you have received.

When I first did stretched funding I did the the 11 hours all year come July LA refused to pay over the summer as it was needed for school in September so they kept back 4 hours a week for 12 weeks and told me to bill parents