Childminder and wrap around care advice

[NewcastleBrownAle]

My 4yo DD is starting at the local primary school's nursery FT Mon-Fri 8.50am till 3.30pm.

DD has been with the same CM and her assistant FT from 8 months old. They're wonderful and my DD absolutely adores them both and will continue to go to the CM's before school (from 7.30am) and after school (until 4pm) 4 days a week as the CM lives next door to the school and already does the school pick ups/drop offs there for her own children/other mindees.

My old FT contract with the CM stated that I paid for all holidays taken by me/DD and for four weeks taken by the CM in Summer/Christmas.

When drawing up our new contract for wrap around care, we agreed I'd pay each day from 7.30 until 9am and then from 3pm to 4pm x 39 weeks only. CM did offer to just charge me from 3.30 to 4pm but I insisted I paid from 3pm.

Anyway we had it all written down and the calculations sorted but the CM said she couldn't find her contract templates so she'd dig them out, fill them in and get me to sign it.

I asked on Monday if she'd found them and she said we needed another meeting to sort some things she'd forgot to mention. I met with her yesterday and she said she now wants to charge me for the remaining 13 weeks.
4 weeks at full rate for her holidays (although she takes these during school holidays) and 9 weeks at half rate because she can't fill the space (even though she told me previously that my DD won't count as one of the younger children for her ratios during wrap around care and surely there'd be no before/after school space to fill in the holidays.

I'd gladly pay her 4 weeks holiday pro rata'd for the 39 weeks but I think it's a little unreasonable to ask for an extra four weeks full pay and 9 weeks half pay when my contract is for wrap around care only.

Is this the norm with other CMs who provide wrap around care? It's just that it's quite a bit more money than we first agreed and I don't know whether I'm being unreasonable in not agreeing with the extra charges.

Thank you

so sorry for the essay.

I'm a childminder and always say on threads like these that childminders are free to put what ever terms and conditions they want on to their buisness. But I always think it is a bit unfair when childminders take paid holiday. I charge full for parents/child's time off and nothing when I take time off as the parents have to take holiday (which could be unpaid) or pay for someone else to look after their child.

Is your daughter starting reception? You've put she is going to nursery but I wanted to check. In England, a child will count in the early years ratios until they are in full time school, so reception. Being full time in nursery has nothing to do with anything. A full time nursery child wanting wrap around care isn't something I would be snapping your hand off to be looking after as you are effectively blocking a place I could be using for another little one for full time.

Hi thank you for your reply.

My DD will be starting nursery but it's the school nursery and full time.

My CM checked with ofstead originally and they confirmed that as it's a school nursery and DD will be attending FT my DD won't count as an 'under 5' during the hours my CM provides wrap around care. I have looked this up online too on the Pacey website and it states the same.

I totally get that my CM has every right to set her own terms but I just don't understand the explanation of not being able to fill the wrap around space in the school holidays if that makes sense.

Thank you

So it sounds like she initially offered you a term time only contract for a pre-schooler and has changed her mind.

Full time at a school nursery will not take your child into the next age bracket, so they will block a space. Maybe she has just found this out.

I would charge you full days all year (but not for my holidays). CMs have lots of different charging structures.

About filling the holiday space ... I took on a pre-schooler term time only once and never did fill the holiday space.

Your child will count in the early years until she is in reception class full time.
I would be looking to take your child on this contract as it'd be impossible to fill the rest of the day.
At best I'd offer full fees for the hours I had your child and half fees for the rest of the day.
I also don't charge for my holiday but again that's up to individual childminders to sort.

My dd's just started with a cm for wrap-around as she's just started in reception. We pay for the hours we use x 39 weeks and then the remaining 13 weeks at half price. It makes sense to me as otherwise cm would get nothing in the hols as majority of her work is wrap around care. If we want to use her during hols we can just top up the half pay.

Starting in reception is different though, as they're in a different age bracket and don't block a space.

Thank you very much for all of your replies.

My CM 100% got confirmation from Ofsted that my DD will not be counted as an 'under 5' during the hours of wrap around care as the nursery is part of the school and apparently if the mindee is 4 or 5 and only attending for wrap around care around their normal school day then they are not counted in the CM's under 5 ratios.

I'm sorry if I've not been very clear, my CM is not actually disputing whether my DD will be classed as an 'under 5' she's happy to say she's not as advised by Ofsted so she's not asking to charge me during the day.

My CM is saying that she'd like me to pay for the further 13 weeks too as she cannot fill the wrap around care space during that time (1.5 hours before and 30 mins after school) but I'm confused because surely there would be no 'before and after school place' to fill during the holidays if that makes sense.

I've spoken to one of my friends this evening who has used the same CM as me for two years for before and after school care and has always just paid for the 39 weeks but she will be changing to the before/after school club because the CM has asked her to pay all year round too.

As a PP said there's no right or wrong really, my CM can set her own terms, I just didn't really understand the logic.

I really appreciate all your replies, thank you.